New international language: Rodinian

[Rodiniye]

Hi everyone,

I am a translator and interpreter (although working as an airline pilot) and have now finished a project I have been working on for the last 11 years. It pursues mainly:
- being and international language.
- being a perfect tool for communication, allowing knowledge to expand and creativity
- avoiding ambiguities and any kind of discrimination (gender/social class).

All documents you need to learn it are in the website (see below), including a full grammar book, exercise book, and a full dictionary with just under 11000 entries (to Spanish and English). There is a link as well to my uni dissertation (partially about this project as well), which got 99% mark.

I hope you can find this interesting, any comments are very welcome.

www.rodinian-language.com

Regards

[Cainntear]

Why iis this superior to the (many) previous attempts to do the same thing?

You're the salesman -- if you want people to click the link, start selling!

[Rodiniye]

saying it is superior to something else would seem a bit rude to me, especially coming from its creator. There have been a lots of interesting projects, many of them very serious and admirable. Many characteristics are found in the website, but in a nuthsell, Rodinian is different because:

- its vocabulary is truly international: many projects say their vocabulary is, but it is not in reality. Rodinian takes its roots from languages ranging from Chinese or English, to Zulu and Nahuatl. Other projects are heavily based in a group of languages, best example being Esperanto, which is manly based in Latin and German languages.
- it has been made taking into account theories like language relativism: our language determines the way we think and it limits our knowledge. Rodinian fights against ambiguities and has mechanisms to allow word creation, vital for language evolution.
- it allows NO discrimination in gender/social class, which is a hot topic nowadays in many countries, for instance in Spain. More can be found in the website.
- very logical and easy language: no exceptions, no verbal conjugation (in number/person), word endings for most categories (similar to Esperanto), extremely logical preposition usage, biological gender (5 main ones: masculine, feminine, neuter, concrete and abstrac). No declensions, no complex verb forms.
- it adds many characteristics that make the language extremely precise and accurate (backing up point number 2): middle voice, referential/demonstrative pronouns, inclusive/exclusive pronouns, dual number, irrealis mode, attitude particles, compound prepositions... etc, all found in the website and in the grammar.

These are the main highlights. Other subjective attributes could be added: it does not sound or seem like a mixture of other languages, it has got some degree of expertise behind it (qualified translator, and project backed up by uni dissertation), 11 years means it has not been rushed at all... Of course, more in www.rodinian-language.com

Hope it helps, any other questions, more than happy to answer :D

Here you will find a brief example, from Ali Baba:

U za viel zeite... i daleko zitu i Persia, zount beiero g’naamti Ali Baba va Kasim. Ali Baba
sêt daridii, ŝi er zount em eren e’qenin i hutu aus buwen. Er katzt kiia i woja, ŝi er
vindet seza w sveqena i ŝuku. Kasim, weqoz, imt riki qenin, ŝi er zount i magni bi baytu
ŝi er vindêt darwasa. Er wûet rikori, iqki u voq. U dage, u wakti katzat Ali Baba kiia i
woju hineki daleko al’zitu, hwret er groe savareran, dar galoopat erang. Warakki, ki er
weset y problemea, ki s’robby dru, klimmet er op derebil ŝi er heidet nantz al’ewaru. Ci
set ŝniea u voq al’manukera, g’vaafti dou i al’zaana, passat qu. Ser set robbera, hakun
aniscite cepre. Ci set barezi, ki seen rai e’ŝeinea, serabuti brewoka ŝi rai bahasea. Mai,
ŝec fazet perfektem barezi eruur, sêt al’veŝa, daz vahtart uyt ot seen e’hasteka, barezem
plûndart w ŝugeky. Seen e’touer sêt vahimali qahati manuker. G’swivti ei eren
e’manukera, er zblizet mevlizi haru. Swit alzet er erew e’yado ŝi er sbreitet: “wijjenu,
irekesed!”. Ali Baba nedokekiet, ŝeca visat er. Ki hitzea al’robberen, al’yenu irekent i
ezen e’edru, ŝi ez wûet al’hinveu zu zalami dyupi itaku. Al’robbera trupat nantz, u wakti
twoat se seen e’nanga. Ali Baba wûet shedon spunbehinderi ki acambi al’visy, ŝi er
bleibet i al’derebil, z s’hareky abdilu.

[DangerDave2010]

Without discrimination I won't be able to express most of my thoughts.

[Rodiniye]

Let me summarize what it really means:

- gender discrimination: taking a look at the language you speak, you must know that many languages that use gender actively in grammar have some kind of discrmination towards masculine or feminine (the last one being the discriminated one in many cases).

Examples of this: in Spanish, "el médico" (the doctor) is masculine, and it is used for both masculine and feminine versions (there is no "*la médica".

Same things happens with personal pronouns: "él" means "he", "ella" means "she", but when referring to a group of people with masculine and feminine subjects, "ellos" (masculine plural) is used.

Rodinian uses biological gender (not used in most of the languages), so if every single word referring to animate subjects has three versions: masculine, feminine and neuter. So for doctor we have "arzter" (masc), "arztin" (fem), "arztek" (neu), so you can refer to that feminine doctor without using the masculine version. In a similar way, if you do not know their gender, you can use the neuter version.

Same with personal pronouns. 3rd person plural is generally speaking "se", plus the gender. If the group of people is masculine only = "ser", feminine only "sen", neuter "se".

In terms of social class, no honorifics are used. That avoids discrimination. That does not seem you cannot express your thoughts: can't you say something without putting the other person higher/lower than yourself? of course you can. I will say more. Rodinian has got particles that can be used to show respect. But they are extremely limited to that. You can use a particle on front of politicians for instance or people you do not know in order to show them respect. You are not discriminating them because the use of these particles is extremely limited: for instance there is no particle to refer to your boss, or to a person you do not like to, or to a person you believe is inferior.

Thanks for participating!!! very welcome

[tommus]

As someone who has been dabbling in Esperanto since 1975, I was hopeful when I saw your post about Rodinian. But when I went to your webpage and looked at the grammar, my hope quickly faded.

... highlights of Rodinian grammar?
... Use of romanic alphabet, plus letters "û", "ê" and "ŝ".

Use of accented letters (which are difficult on far too many keyboards and text coding) was a real disappointment. You are trying to make it international, but it appears you are making it equally difficult for everyone.

... Word gender (not found in English, but found for instance in Spanish or German)
... Five genders are found: animate masculine, animate feminine, animate neuter, concrete and abstract.

Enough said! Not only genders but five (5) genders.

... Each grammar category or attribute has its own word ending: masculine (-er), feminine (-in), neuter (-ek), concrete 1 (-u), concrete 2 (-û), abstract 1 (-e), abstract 2 (-y), adjectives (-i), adverbs (-m), verbs (-t,-s,-z,-ed or -eŝ), dual nouns (-o), plural nouns (-a), noun dependant nouns (-n), adjective dependant nouns (-x)

It looks like you have made it just about as complicated as possible.

... Word construction based on a fixed root (for instance, vlieg), to which different morphemes are added to give it its full meaning. For instance, from root vlieg we can get: vlieger/vliegin (pilot), vliegu (aircraft), vliegleku (airport), vliegy (flight)... Once the morphemes are known, it is very intuitive, no exceptions.

That is good.

... No verb conjugation, same form for gender and number.

It appears that that is very good.

... No complex verb forms.

That is also good.

I would be interested in the process you used to "simplify". Did you do widespread consultation with people who use or want to use a simplified language? For example: One excellent approach would have been to talk to Esperanto users and learners from as many parts of the world as possible, and ask them two questions:

1. What do you like about Esperanto?

2. What do you not like about Esperanto?

Those are my very initial reactions. I hope I will become pleasantly surprised when I learn more about Rodinian.

[Rodiniye]

Hi Tommus!

I am delighted to see that you are really interested in the language. Let me answer your concerns:

- accented letters: you might be right, but Esperanto has far more than Rodinian. However, nowadays it is extremely easy to create a keyboard in order to use the letters you want to use. I have a script that allows you to write Rodinian in your computer in seconds. Many many languages in the world have their own letters, as in Spanish "ñ" or French "ç". I really think having 3 accented letters is not such a big issue, and it gives Rodinian its own identity, but I can see your concern.

Before explaining the rest, let me point something out. One of the rodinian goals is to be easy, but it is not the only one. It is to be precise as well, accurate, and be a perfect tool for language evolution, backing up some theories like language relativism.

Having said this.

Yes, five genders. Genders are found in many languages in the world, and they add some extra information that I find very valuable. The "pros" about having gender far outweight the "cons". BUT. Gender is Rodinian is revolutionary because it is purely biological.

So 5 main genders: masculine, feminine, neuter, concrete, abstract.

If I say to you, which is the gender of the following words? actress, stone, anger, boy, I guess you know where to put them. So learning the 5 genders is a matter of seconds, it is purely logical.

Each category having their own ending... it adds simplicity. Take a root, you can create as many words as possible. Take English for instance, take the word "diverse". You can have... diverse (adj), but diversify, but diversity, but diversification... so you think, ok! from diverse, I add -ify and I have the verb. Let's take the word "similar" now. "similarify"? "similarification?", "similare"? Morphemes are simply not consistent and you really need to learn every word, so simplicity in Rodinian is extreme in here.

I have done the Esperanto research, and found that:
- people did not like the sound or look of it.
- people did not like that vocabulary was coming only from a set of languages.
- people did not like the extreme simplicity (losing meaning sometimes).

but people liked:
- word endings
- kind of preposition logic
- extremely easy to create words and its morpheme system.

And that is what I used basically.

I say it everywhere, Rodinian is not the easiest language. But Esperanto did not fully succeed being extremely easy, so there is something to learn from that. A language has to be more than easy. It has to be fully international, it has to be the foundations of our knowledge, and in order to do that it has to put no limits to human thinking. An easy language, in some ways, restricts or limits that. Rodinian uses to appropiate dificulty in order to allow for a system that is logical and easy, but accurate and precise as well. If we want to have a common language, let's do it well. At the end of the day we are using English as lingua franca, whose phonetics is probably one of the most difficult ones! So it seems that people actually like a bit of difficulty, so let's use that in order to create a good tool for communication.

[Rodiniye]

And I fully respect that LesRonces. If you think a lingua franca should be owned by a natural language, and therefore by their native speakers, then so be it. That to me, however, can be seen as extremely unfair.

Gender discrimination does NOT come from neuter words as English "doctor". It exists in languages that use gender actively in grammar. As I said, it is a hot topic in Spain for instance (where I am from).

About grammatical gender and human gender... (or biological gender which seems more appropiate), yes I fully agree, it does not have to be related. However, it is one of the criteria when constructing a language, and matching both of them makes the language more accurate and extremely easy to use anyway. A language without gender is just a bit less accurate, but it is no discriminative in any shape or form as I explained earlier on.

As I said, I fully respect your opinion, all comments are very welcome!

EDIT: just because you did too! fully agree. I love variety, I love new cultures. No created language will give you a different culture, but it will get you closer to other points of view for instance, and it will show you that other means of communication are possible! BUT, learning a (created) international language does not prevent you from learning a natural language. It is pretty much the opposite! People interested in created languages have normally a big love and admiration and knowledge for natural languages and speak a lot of them, and therefore their interest in "something else" or "new tools". Back to the beginning, I love and admire all natural languages, an international language is not a way of merging all languages in one, is just a tool of communication for people that do not share a native language. Apart from that, I actively reccomend the study and learning of as many natural languages as possible, as I have done myself!

[DangerDave2010]

The masculine is neuter and inclusive, the proponents of the lenguaje no sexista are the sexist themselves, finding discrimination where there is none.

[aokoye]

I'll preface this by saying that on my phone and I haven't read through the entire thread.

That said, grammatical gender is not discriminatory. I get that a lot of people may think it is but I really suggest a. Taking a deeper look into what grammatical gender is (from a ling standpoint) and b. Looking at how grammatical gender has developed in languages. It was never the case o someone saying, "I know what would be a good idea!" Also note that grammatical gender is not the same as sex or gender as it relates to humans. I suggest looking at the issues faced by women and trans people in countries where the primary language (or one of them) has no grammatical gender.

Along those lines you're not going to ever be able to make a language that doesn't allow people to be discriminatory. Unless you have a language that doesn't allow for people to amje judgments which seems beyond unrealistic.

Lastly (for now) I highly doubt the vocab in this is truly international. There are too many languages to account for.