Study suggests even moderate drinking could affect language fluency

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Estrella
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Re: Study suggests even moderate drinking could affect language fluency

Postby Estrella » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:03 pm

I don't drink alcohol, but for those who do, here's at least one positive effect: you'll be less shy and nervous. Nervousness alone can make you make mistakes you wouldn't normally make if you weren't so nervous about speaking in that new language you've just started learning.
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Re: Study suggests even moderate drinking could affect language fluency

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:36 pm

I practically don't drink. I was never big on the idea, although I have had my fair share when I was younger, but nothing like some.

I think of it this way. Study aside, what does my intuition tell me? Well, were I to put a bunch of my cells in a petri dish from various parts of my body and dowse them in vodka, wine or beer, would my cells like this? No, I highly doubt any of my cells would like this to varying degrees, likely depending on the potency of the alcohol predominantly. Thus, it's not positive, imo, and I don't need any study to tell me how to think. Were I to cover those same cells in water from a mountain spring, would it be detrimental to their longevity? No, highly unlikely. Drink water and you hydrate your cells, drink alcohol you dehydrate and lightly poison your cells via intoxication. Do it continuously or in large doses, the damage is likely to be more severe. Yes, alcohol has some positive effects, but chocolate contains positive attributes too, yet the sugar is more damaging in my opinion. It's a marketing ploy- distract the buyer with the positive effects and ignore the negatives. I disagree that some alcohol is good for you, despite what research states, as I have my own opinion. Could be wrong, but works for me. The healthier your body the more likely you will learn more effectively and forget less.
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Re: Study suggests even moderate drinking could affect language fluency

Postby Cavesa » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:57 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote: Well, were I to put a bunch of my cells in a petri dish from various parts of my body and dowse them in vodka, wine or beer, would my cells like this? No, I highly doubt any of my cells would like this to varying degrees, likely depending on the potency of the alcohol predominantly.

To reenact this experiment with a human instead of a few cells, you would definitely need to get well beyond what is considered moderate drinking. Noone has suggested getting totally wasted was good for either language learning or anything other.

Were I to cover those same cells in water from a mountain spring, would it be detrimental to their longevity? No, highly unlikely.
Yes it would. Osmosis would make those cells suck the water in and explode. And if you tried to reenact this with a human being instead of the cells and with adequately huge amount of water, you would die too. "Water poisoning" is a real thing, basically people who drink a few litres too fast get a nice little metabolic failure, pretty difficult to solve, often fatal. Actually, beer would be much less harmful in such a case, as it contains not only water but ions and other osmotically active molecules too.

Yes, alcohol has some positive effects, but chocolate contains positive attributes too, yet the sugar is more damaging in my opinion.

It's a marketing ploy- distract the buyer with the positive effects and ignore the negatives. I disagree that some alcohol is good for you, despite what research states, as I have my own opinion. Could be wrong, but works for me. The healthier your body the more likely you will learn more effectively and forget less.


Just like noone advocates drinking lots of alcohol, noone advocates eating lots of chocolate. And yes, you don't need any research for that, the common reason suggests so. And do you think people need complicated marketing ploys to drink too much alcohol or eat too much chocolate? We tend to be unreasonable enough even without such external encouragement. (Don't even ask how I am eating now, during the exam time :-D )

The research on the cardiovascular effects of small doses of alcohol is pretty reliable, and the numbers of CV diseases in countries with the reasonable approach to alcohol compared to the bad approach speak quite clearly. Of course that doesn't mean doctors would encourage people to drink, the bad effects are notorious. However, it is worth it to try and convince people to prefer the less harming and potentially advantageous way of consommation.

It is actually quite a common sight in the cardiovascular units. A typical patient: a middle aged or slightly older man, smoking and drinking since his youth, eating horribly. At some point, he decides he should try to live in a more healthy way, as even his tv and trashy newspaper lecture him about it so much. So he chooses to quit one of his bad habits. The worst choice, from the cardiovascular point of view, is to quit drinking and keep the rest (smoking+horrible eating habits), it's basically a call "Infarctus, here I am, waiting with open arms!"
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Re: Study suggests even moderate drinking could affect language fluency

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:59 am

Cavesa wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote: Well, were I to put a bunch of my cells in a petri dish from various parts of my body and dowse them in vodka, wine or beer, would my cells like this? No, I highly doubt any of my cells would like this to varying degrees, likely depending on the potency of the alcohol predominantly.

To reenact this experiment with a human instead of a few cells, you would definitely need to get well beyond what is considered moderate drinking. Noone has suggested getting totally wasted was good for either language learning or anything other.

Were I to cover those same cells in water from a mountain spring, would it be detrimental to their longevity? No, highly unlikely.
Yes it would. Osmosis would make those cells suck the water in and explode. And if you tried to reenact this with a human being instead of the cells and with adequately huge amount of water, you would die too. "Water poisoning" is a real thing, basically people who drink a few litres too fast get a nice little metabolic failure, pretty difficult to solve, often fatal. Actually, beer would be much less harmful in such a case, as it contains not only water but ions and other osmotically active molecules too.

Yes, alcohol has some positive effects, but chocolate contains positive attributes too, yet the sugar is more damaging in my opinion.

It's a marketing ploy- distract the buyer with the positive effects and ignore the negatives. I disagree that some alcohol is good for you, despite what research states, as I have my own opinion. Could be wrong, but works for me. The healthier your body the more likely you will learn more effectively and forget less.


Just like noone advocates drinking lots of alcohol, noone advocates eating lots of chocolate. And yes, you don't need any research for that, the common reason suggests so. And do you think people need complicated marketing ploys to drink too much alcohol or eat too much chocolate? We tend to be unreasonable enough even without such external encouragement. (Don't even ask how I am eating now, during the exam time :-D )

The research on the cardiovascular effects of small doses of alcohol is pretty reliable, and the numbers of CV diseases in countries with the reasonable approach to alcohol compared to the bad approach speak quite clearly. Of course that doesn't mean doctors would encourage people to drink, the bad effects are notorious. However, it is worth it to try and convince people to prefer the less harming and potentially advantageous way of consommation.

It is actually quite a common sight in the cardiovascular units. A typical patient: a middle aged or slightly older man, smoking and drinking since his youth, eating horribly. At some point, he decides he should try to live in a more healthy way, as even his tv and trashy newspaper lecture him about it so much. So he chooses to quit one of his bad habits. The worst choice, from the cardiovascular point of view, is to quit drinking and keep the rest (smoking+horrible eating habits), it's basically a call "Infarctus, here I am, waiting with open arms!"


All very reasonable points, thank you for sharing Cavesa :) and happy to be proven incorrect.
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Re: Study suggests even moderate drinking could affect language fluency

Postby Whodathunkitz » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:14 pm

I've had my most fluent moments after a few drinks, probably the relaxing aspect.

Whether a small amount of alcohol is good or bad will depend on many factors.

I don't drink much now, probably much less than my ancestors did who (before tea) probably drank small beer*, even the children, to avoid illness from diseased water sources.

*small beer - probably 0.75% alcohol, consumed in great quantities (5+ litres a day for workmen).

So as (most) of my ancestors may have been drinking beer for hundreds or thousands of years, have I evolved to do better on it as well?

I'll try to avoid other things my ancestors had like cave bears, parasites, fleas and psychedelic mushrooms though. But beer has been around 7000+ years and small beer has probably been consumed anywhere farming existed.

Beer may be the REASON farming started.
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Re: Study suggests even moderate drinking could affect language fluency

Postby neumanc » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:01 pm

Cavesa wrote:The research on the cardiovascular effects of small doses of alcohol is pretty reliable, and the numbers of CV diseases in countries with the reasonable approach to alcohol compared to the bad approach speak quite clearly. Of course that doesn't mean doctors would encourage people to drink, the bad effects are notorious. However, it is worth it to try and convince people to prefer the less harming and potentially advantageous way of consommation.
I believe this to be true, but not many scientists and doctors are up to admit that some alcohol may actually be good for you. If you are a middle-aged language learner and interested in living long enough to enjoy your language learning's effects of delaying Alzheimer's, you may look up this link to a really outstanding blog on this matter: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/?s=alcohol&submit=Search.
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Re: Study suggests even moderate drinking could affect language fluency

Postby Cavesa » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:46 pm

neumanc wrote:
Cavesa wrote:The research on the cardiovascular effects of small doses of alcohol is pretty reliable, and the numbers of CV diseases in countries with the reasonable approach to alcohol compared to the bad approach speak quite clearly. Of course that doesn't mean doctors would encourage people to drink, the bad effects are notorious. However, it is worth it to try and convince people to prefer the less harming and potentially advantageous way of consommation.
I believe this to be true, but not many scientists and doctors are up to admit that some alcohol may actually be good for you. If you are a middle-aged language learner and interested in living long enough to enjoy your language learning's effects of delaying Alzheimer's, you may look up this link to a really outstanding blog on this matter: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/?s=alcohol&submit=Search.


1. As I mentioned a few times, the protective effect of small regular doses of alcohol were just the cardiovascular point of view. Solely that. It is so proven that it is even published in cardiology textbooks, which is definitely more than "some scientists admit". But that is, of course, totally different from neurology, gastro-hepato, and other textbooks. Most people don't need encouragement to drink more. Definitely, it is not worth it to start for someone with overall healthy lifestyle, who just has two glasses of wine twice per month or even less. But it is a nice guideline for the far too common situation of people who would need to change a lot of habits, their two beers every evening are likely to be less alarming than their tobacco addiction. I am definitely not telling people to start drinking more. Just pointing out that the study this thread is about has some flaws, especially its interpretation related to language learning, and that having a beer or a glass of wine regularly with your dinner is not a medical reason to panic per se, or something that would harm language learning.

2. I haven't encountered any specific connections between alcohol and Alzheimer's, so there is probably nothing specific about it. But the vascular protection may extend a bit to vascular dementias. But of course, there is the other end of the spectrum, which are alcoholic dementias and than all that lot of multifactorial stuff, where alcohol (no matter the dose) is just one tiny bit of the puzzle.

Fortunately, I am not middle aged yet. And I think I am preparing myself against Alzheimer's quite well, at the expense of my health right now. :-D Actually, I am so tired of studying I am having some symptoms of dementia now. I was told by my doctor that it was normal and would pass. Thanks for the link anyways.

Really, I think the most interesting part of having one or two beers with your conversation opportunity is the inhibition of shyness and similar emotions. Chemically and as a placebo. That is all there is to it, I doubt the scientists, even if they work on this issue, will find anything more.
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Re: Study suggests even moderate drinking could affect language fluency

Postby neofight78 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:05 pm

I like drinking alcohol and I like studying Russian, therefore drinking cannot possibly have a negative effect on fluency. :?
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Re: Study suggests even moderate drinking could affect language fluency

Postby Iversen » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:56 am

A recent Danish study shows that both the university students who don't drink at all and those that drink like a hole in the ground are more likely to drop out of their studies then those who drink with moderation. In the case of the first group the reason is assumed to be that they get less social contacts. It should be pretty clear why the second group drops out.
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