Some questions about learning French

[smallwhite]

So little use of the English dictionary?! And I thought we were all languge nerds here. I still look up most unknown or doubtful words I encounter, Chinese or English.

Ironically, I didn't use the IPA when I was learning French, my first self-taught L2. My notes about the French "-ir" read:

ir = "ear" even when inside a word

If you're American you'd reckon I mispronounce "ir" and if you're French you'd reckon I mispronounce "ear"...

[Ani]

I never even thought about using a dictionary to check pronunciation of an English word Up until I was in high school, I'd just ask someone. After that, I could ask the internet. Just about everyone uses unofficial attempts at phonetic spelling if they need to discuss a pronunciation in writing, using caps or an apostrophe to designate the accented syllable (SIL-uh-buhl).. You end up with all sorts of messy things. I assume my brother can use IPA because he was a linguistics major but I doubt I know anyone else who can use it. (This forum excepted).

[aokoye]

So little use of the English dictionary?! And I thought we were all languge nerds here. I still look up most unknown or doubtful words I encounter, Chinese or English.

I definitely look up English words I don't know the definition of, but it's rare that I have to lookup English pronunciation as a L1 speaker.

[Cavesa]

There is always forvo. That is basically a dictionary of pronunciations. I use it in combination with other dictionaries, online or paper. More often online. Not only I don't like the pronunciation writing (IPA or other), I simply learn it better by hearing it and repeating. A bonus: there are often more records of the word, so you can choose a speaker from a region of your choice, which is something no classic dictionary entry can provide.

[aokoye]

A bonus: there are often more records of the word, so you can choose a speaker from a region of your choice, which is something no classic dictionary entry can provide.

And that is something you're not going to get via looking up pronunciation in a dictionary - I agree with you that it's a bonus. In English dictionaries you will, at most, get some sort of "standard" American dialect that is some amalgamation of the Midland dialect(s) for the supposed American pronunciation and the Received Pronunciation for the supposed British pronunciation.

[PeterMollenburg]

When building a house one needs an array of tools, equipment, machinery and skills, if someone prefers Tool ZZZ in their collection as it really helps in their mind ensure bolts xyz are tightened to perfection that's fine. Others don't see it as being necessary as there are electric tools that do something similar-ish via another method. Each to their own. IPA is absolutely not a hinerance, it is another (useful) precision tool. I can still access Forvo, but why would I want to, when I have Tool ZZZ?

[smallwhite]

Hmmm... I started to use the IPA when I was 12. My school-prescribed English dictionary had it. My estimate of 30 mins is for a complete beginner, though, but counting just the IPA part and excluding the pronunciation part (that PM keeps talking about) (and yet I get told off for).

I don't think you were told off about that more so people thought you weren't in the norm in terms of the speed it took you to learn the IPA symbols for English.

I didn't understand that sentence
I never mentioned the speed it took me to learn the IPA symbols for English (or any language) in this thread. I estimated that it would take a complete beginner 30 mins to learn that French IPA list, if that's what you meant.

Can you explain or rephrase the sentence in bold, please? I still don't understand it, and I feel uncomfortable because you're addressing me but almost everyone else understands what you're saying while I don't.

(I don't think) (you were told off about that) more so (people thought you weren't in the norm) (in terms of the speed it took you to learn the IPA symbols for English).

I've put phrases that I do understand in brackets. Looks like it's the "more so" bit that I don't understand, and thus the whole sentence. Thanks.

[aokoye]

Hmmm... I started to use the IPA when I was 12. My school-prescribed English dictionary had it. My estimate of 30 mins is for a complete beginner, though, but counting just the IPA part and excluding the pronunciation part (that PM keeps talking about) (and yet I get told off for).

I don't think you were told off about that more so people thought you weren't in the norm in terms of the speed it took you to learn the IPA symbols for English.

I didn't understand that sentence
I never mentioned the speed it took me to learn the IPA symbols for English (or any language) in this thread. I estimated that it would take a complete beginner 30 mins to learn that French IPA list, if that's what you meant.

Can you explain or rephrase the sentence in bold, please? I still don't understand it, and I feel uncomfortable because you're addressing me but almost everyone else understands what you're saying while I don't.

(I don't think) (you were told off about that) more so (people thought you weren't in the norm) (in terms of the speed it took you to learn the IPA symbols for English).

I've put phrases that I do understand in brackets. Looks like it's the "more so" bit that I don't understand, and thus the whole sentence. Thanks.

No worries - so in your quote you said, "My estimate of 30 mins is for a complete beginner, though, but counting just the IPA part and excluding the pronunciation part (that PM keeps talking about) (and yet I get told off for)" - bolding mine. That, to me, made it sound like you were saying that you had been told off for using IPA as a tool.

My response is saying that I don't think that's what people were telling you off about/for. In one of your posts you said:

Not sure if I wasn't clear, I mean how long did you think it would take before you read this thread? In this thread I said it takes 30 minutes. I'd like to know, before this thread and before I said 30 mins, how long did you think it would take.

It is that claim (the estimated 30 minutes - especially if one assumes that the person learning hadn't learned any IPA prior) that I think some people were dubious of.

edit: it also wasn't clear to me, prior to your post, that the 30 minutes wasn't in reference to yourself.

[smallwhite]

Not sure if I wasn't clear, I mean how long did you think it would take before you read this thread? In this thread I said it takes 30 minutes. I'd like to know, before this thread and before I said 30 mins, how long did you think it would take.

It is that claim (the estimated 30 minutes - especially if one assumes that the person learning hadn't learned any IPA prior) that I think some people were dubious of.

Thank you, aokoye. I understand now.

The only person who felt "dubious" was LesRonces, but as you know now, it was just an estimate he was dubious of so nothing major. Didn't bother me at all. And no one told me off regarding how long it takes to learn the IPA, actual or estimate.

... in your quote you said, "My estimate of 30 mins is for a complete beginner, though, but counting just the IPA part and excluding the pronunciation part (that PM keeps talking about) (and yet I get told off for)" - bolding mine. That, to me, made it sound like you were saying that you had been told off for using IPA as a tool.

Red colouring mine. I was actually saying that I was told off for claiming that IPA is (an essential) part of pronunciation, or whatever it was that you were telling me off for here and here.

[aokoye]

... in your quote you said, "My estimate of 30 mins is for a complete beginner, though, but counting just the IPA part and excluding the pronunciation part (that PM keeps talking about) (and yet I get told off for)" - bolding mine. That, to me, made it sound like you were saying that you had been told off for using IPA as a tool.

Red colouring mine. I was actually saying that I was told off for claiming that IPA is (an essential) part of pronunciation, or whatever it was that you were telling me off for here and here.

I think that's a bit of a stretch. I said, in a number of words, that not everyone needs or wants to use IPA for various reasons and numerous times said that if IPA works for you then that's great. That learning a language isn't a cookie cutter sort of exercise.