First-person plural used for condescension

General discussion about learning languages
User avatar
jeff_lindqvist
Blue Belt
Posts: 791
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:52 pm
Languages: sv, en
de, es
ga, eo
---
fi, yue, ro, tp, cy, kw, pt, sk
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2773
x 1194

Re: First-person plural used for condescension

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:03 pm

Same usage in Swedish (doctor - patient, parent - child).
0 x
Leabhair/Greannáin léite as Gaeilge: 9 / 18
Ar an seastán oíche: Oileán an Órchiste
Duolingo - finished trees: sp/ga/de/fr/pt/it
Finnish with extra pain : 100 / 100

User avatar
tarvos
Brown Belt
Posts: 1203
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: Hollandiában
Languages: Native: Dutch, English
Expert: French, Russian, Swedish, German, Romanian, Esperanto, Spanish
Advanced: Italian, Mandarin, Portuguese, Greek, Czech, Norwegian
Intermediate: Hebrew, Icelandic, Hungarian
Beginner: Breton, Korean, Finnish, Polish, Japanese, Bulgarian
Read-only: Danish, Latin, Afrikaans
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
x 2068
Contact:

Re: First-person plural used for condescension

Postby tarvos » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:59 pm

You could use it as such in Dutch, yes
0 x
To polyglotism and beyond.
Preferred pronouns: feminine.

User avatar
vogeltje
Blue Belt
Posts: 846
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:13 pm
Location: London
Languages: Belgian French (N)

I can speak: Dutch, German, English, Spanish and understand Italian, Portuguese, Wallonian, Afrikaans, but not always correctly.
x 498

Re: First-person plural used for condescension

Postby vogeltje » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:51 pm

Ingaræð wrote:
:?:

I 'liked' Alphathon's post because I thought that what s/he wrote was a useful piece of information, particularly for non-native speakers of English. I can't see where anyone has told you off for anything...? I certainly haven't.


good.

Ingar̄¯´œ˙´®þ¥¨ʼø,-˚˝ˍ©ƒð߯ˀ.¸ˇ˘˜˛≤¡™£¢§ˆ¶•ªªº–≠‘“,øʼ¨¥Œ̇́ ̇́‰Þ ̛̏̈Ø̦ ̦”’’»Æ№…æ searched for the æ ...d wrote:
I find it's easiest to copy and paste people's usernames. And that's not criticism, I'm just sharing a tip. :)


Yes, I agree, but you had voted for Alphathon's post and I can't copypaste that. ok, good, not criticism, thank you.

I searched to find the æ as well :)


Alphathon wrote:I'm sorry if it came off as me telling you off as that certainly wasn't my intention - I was just trying to be informative.


Ok, good, thank you.

yes you were informative.

Alphathon wrote:I have to admit I only skimmed Reineke's post (it's a little on the long side) so I must have missed that part. As such I totally misunderstood what you meant.


No problem.

Alphathron wrote:Regardless, (having now read it properly) I think my point applies to that post as well, i.e. that using "we" in place of "I" (as in the royal we or the editorial we) is separate from using "we" for "you" as described in the OP. The linked paper (in English) might be relevant however (I've only read the abstract).


I knew the other one, I mean the "we" when the person means "you" becuase I know it in French (Doctors, but not often and it sounds stupid I think, for sure condescnding like the OP said in English), but I didn't know the "we" for "I" version like the royal one except that Queen Victoria said it.

Alphathon wrote:
vogeltje wrote:and I know that ingraed's d is a differernt letter but I can't find the correct one on my laptop.
For future reference ð is a letter known in Icelandic as "eth", in Faroese as "edd" and in Old English as "ðæt" (thaet). The Wikipedia article on it has info on how to enter it on Windows and OS X.


Thanks. it's a sweet letter, I like it. :)

I had to change my keyboard to the "ABC Extended" version, then to get ð it's: alt + D ðððððððððððð :lol:
0 x
-w- I am Jar-ptitsa and my Hawaiian name is ʻā ʻaia
: 1 / 50 Spanish grammar
: 5 / 50 Spanish vocabulary

Cainntear
Blue Belt
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:04 am
Location: Scotland
Languages: English(N)
Advanced: French,Spanish, Scottish Gaelic
Intermediate: Italian, Catalan, Corsican
Basic: Welsh
Dabbling: Polish, Russian etc
x 1381
Contact:

Re: First-person plural used for condescension

Postby Cainntear » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:59 pm

vogeltje wrote:I knew the other one, I mean the "we" when the person means "you" becuase I know it in French (Doctors, but not often and it sounds stupid I think, for sure condescnding like the OP said in English), but I didn't know the "we" for "I" version like the royal one except that Queen Victoria said it.

As I understand it, the "royal we" was common across much of Europe for a while, and is basically the equivalent of a French "vous" form for referring to ones self. Only kings did it because they were the only people that everyone called vous.

But I'm sure we knew that, didn't we? *

( * Please forgive the weak attempt at on-topic humour. )
0 x
A year of Tatoeba recordings: 40 / 365 One donated recording every day in 2017.

User avatar
Josquin
Green Belt
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:38 pm
Location: Germany
Languages: German (native); English, French (fluent); Italian, Swedish, Russian, Latin (high intermediate); Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Icelandic, Dutch (low intermediate); Japanese, Portuguese, Persian, Thai (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=737
x 597

Re: First-person plural used for condescension

Postby Josquin » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:04 pm

Cainntear wrote:As I understand it, the "royal we" was common across much of Europe for a while, and is basically the equivalent of a French "vous" form for referring to ones self. Only kings did it because they were the only people that everyone called vous.

I think the Pope used to refer to himself by the "royal we" as well, but, yeah, other than that it was reserved for kings and emperors.

By the way, I totally love the fact that even the Royal Family has to bow and curtsey towards the British monarch, so no wonder they thought they were somehow special and needed their own pronoun.

Total language-nerd-fun-fact: In Asian languages, such as Thai, it's totally normal that royalty has their own set of pronouns, not only for themselves but also for referring to others. They are also referred to by special pronouns. This has to do with linguistic register, which is very prominent in Asian languages (best example: Japanese keigo, i.e. polite language).

Be that as it may, the other "we" in question (for condescension) is pretty common in German, especially among nurses: "Na, wie geht's uns denn heute?"
0 x
Gaeilge go brách!

Fesenjoon
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:25 pm
Languages: Swedish (Native), English (C2), Persian (Advanced), German (B2), Turkish (beginner)

Re: First-person plural used for condescension

Postby Fesenjoon » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:34 pm

In Persian one can use the first person plural to minimize oneself and express humility. Quite the opposite of the royal we. :D
0 x


Return to “General Language Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest