Re: Examples of Input Only
Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:04 pm
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We talk languages
http://forum.language-learners.org/
http://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5118
reineke wrote:
In light of all this, why is Patrick being painted as a near failure?
Re: The limits of comprehensible input?smallwhite wrote:Patrickwilken is probably the most immersed member here - lives in Gemany, [here she lists Patrick's private business] consistent multiple hours of media for multiple years. English native learning Cat II language. If Patrickwilken is still not doing that great then it seems to me relying on comprehensive input to learn anything but sister languages is unrealistic and infeasible.
... and Patrick's success is being whittled down to failure.
smallwhite wrote:reineke wrote:
In light of all this, why is Patrick being painted as a near failure?
Re: The limits of comprehensible input?smallwhite wrote:Patrickwilken is probably the most immersed member here - lives in Gemany, [here she lists Patrick's private business] consistent multiple hours of media for multiple years. English native learning Cat II language. If Patrickwilken is still not doing that great then it seems to me relying on comprehensive input to learn anything but sister languages is unrealistic and infeasible.
... and Patrick's success is being whittled down to failure.
I haven't been following this thread but Reineke's saying I painted Patrick as failure and near failure is just horrible. My description of Patrick "not doing that great" - far from "failure" - was a quick summary immediately following Patrick's own post in which he described himself as -
- "I still find reading books a bit of a slog..."
- "My sentence structure is not standard German..."
- "I think to a large extent I just need to do a ton more Comprehensible Input to..."
so still "a ton" of input away from his goal. Patrick's post here.
Reineke has become the reason I will read LLorg regularly no matter how busy I am.
patrickwilken wrote:I think people are misreading what I said a bit. I am (admittedly self assessed) at C1 for reading and listening in German. So CI worked really well for me. The last time I looked a couple of years ago I had a knowledge of at least 10000 words in German, but that just doesn't equate to knowing all the words on a page. There are still lots of gaps as soon as you start reading serious newspapers or books, though I can still read and understand these things without a dictionary.
golyplot wrote:You can add me to the list of people who study almost exclusively through input. Of course, that's partly a matter of expediency, because it is a lot easier to watch TV than to do anything which requires actual effort.
reineke wrote:jeff_lindqvist wrote:garyb wrote:Maybe being too invested in one learning philosophy is a language learning weakness? I remember a poster on the old forum (whose name I forget) who was determined to stick to the input method: avoiding speaking German whenever possible despite living in Berlin with a German wife, and steadfastly refusing to study grammar even though he admitted his grammar was a major weak point. He was very frank about his results, and eventually admitted what most of us know: input gets you quite far but most learners need other work on top of it in order to become a competent speaker in a reasonable amount of time. He's just one data point of course, but probably the best-documented example we've had of someone persisting with very input-focused learning over several years.
I think that was patrickwilken and his mega thread German: massive input in Berlin. More thoughts about it here: Krashen & some failures for massive input.Monox D. I-Fly wrote:garyb wrote:Maybe being too invested in one learning philosophy is a language learning weakness? I remember a poster on the old forum (whose name I forget) who was determined to stick to the input method: avoiding speaking German whenever possible despite living in Berlin with a German wife, and steadfastly refusing to study grammar even though he admitted....
OCD: Any learners' worst enemy
Fair play is sorely lacking here. The thread is entitled "Your language learning weaknesses".
Tristano wrote:golyplot wrote:You can add me to the list of people who study almost exclusively through input. Of course, that's partly a matter of expediency, because it is a lot easier to watch TV than to do anything which requires actual effort.
I'm an example, even though you are probably looking for someone more accomplished than me.
....
I found that training production has a positive effect in enhancing recall and listening comprehension.