Examples of Input Only

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walldepartment
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Examples of Input Only

Postby walldepartment » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:10 am

Hello. I have trouble finding this information. I am curious about some differences between input and output. I would like to read some examples of people who have had a lot of input ONLY and no output. Can anyone give me some links to this?
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Re: Examples of Input Only

Postby Teango » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:49 am

I'm not sure if I can find anyone who quite fits the category of all input and no output (in fact, I'm not too keen on using these terms anyway), but there are some interesting experiments out there where people have tried to learn a language from scratch through extensive listening ONLY (at least in the early stages). This may have included some small level of production or dictionary work along the way, or even a little bit of initial classroom learning prior to the experiment, so you'd have to read through the learners' blogs in each case to double-check. And I'm not suggesting a long "silent period" of solely receptive immersion myself, as I generally aim for a dynamic synergy of both receptive and productive skill-building, immersion, and conscious learning in my own current approach from the very start; but these blogs do make for an interesting read with regards to focusing on input over output:

Mandarin Chinese:
Victor Hart's Language Acquisition Experiment (Mandarin Chinese - self-directed)
Keith Lucas' TV Method (Mandarin Chinese - self-directed)

Thai:
Adam's ALG Journal (Thai - classroom-based)
Dan's adventures in Bangkok (Thai - classroom-based)

We also have a number of members of the old HTLAL forum who initially immersed themselves in significant fathoms of semi-fathomable input by reading whole novels and watching tv series and movies in the target language on a daily basis. There are a long line of Listening-Reading experiments in the HTLAL archive following an epic thread on the subject by siomotteikiru/atamagaii. For example, Doviende comes to mind (who made lots of excellent contributions back then). I recall he made good progress through reading the entire Harry Potter anthology and watching the complete series of Star Trek DS9 in German, although he already may have studied some German beforehand. And there are many more members who followed this approach or at least gave it a good go.
Last edited by Teango on Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Examples of Input Only

Postby aokoye » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:01 am

While it almost never gets talked about on this forum an example of input only learning would be grad and doctoral students learning how to read in a "research language". In those cases it really is, for the most part, all input and no output. I can't think of any logs here that talk about it but a google search for "graduate reading exam" or "graduate reading course" will give you a lot of hits. It should be noted though, that the goal of these sorts of classes and exams isn't to be able to speak the language, it's to be able to read it.

There are theories in SLA (second language acquisition) that say that input is all you need to successfully learn a language, such as Krashen's Input Hypothesis, but they are in the minority. Additionally in Krashen's Input Hypothesis the student is likely going to produce output, but it's thought that output just isn't important in learning.
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Re: Examples of Input Only

Postby aokoye » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:22 am

I should have mentioned in my previous post that there actually is a very recent thread about graduate reading exams: Learning to read Chinese/Japanese.
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Re: Examples of Input Only

Postby rdearman » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:10 pm

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Re: Examples of Input Only

Postby William Camden » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:52 pm

Memrise courses where there is no keyboard? That seems to be just input to me.
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Re: Examples of Input Only

Postby Systematiker » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:40 pm

I suppose it depends on what people do to supplement the input.

I may be, in part, something like what you're interested in. I don't produce anything spoken or written in Ancient Greek, though I have read aloud in the past. I learned it through the old grammar-translation method, though. (Much like Hebrew, which I've now started to produce, so it won't work for what you're looking for, and Latin, but j write and pray in Latin from time to time).

My experience with Danish may be what you're looking for - I've never written a sentence in it, I did one chapter of an instructional text, and I've only said one thing aloud (the Lord's Prayer, a few times); everything else has been native material input. But I'm also leveraging synergy big-time to do it, so it may not meet your criteria.
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Re: Examples of Input Only

Postby lingua » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:59 pm

I would consider the way I'm studying Latin to be input only unless answering multiple choice on memrise or writing the answer to problems from a grammar book is considered output. My intention was only ever to read and understand it. I am not all that knowledgeable in regards to the vocabulary of language acquisition. I have learned some terms here but other than that I just always assumed input was reading/listening and output was talking/writing.
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Re: Examples of Input Only

Postby reineke » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:17 pm

"Transferred" from another thread:

Random Review wrote:@ Cainntear: I broadly agree with your last post, but there are a couple of things I wanted to say...

Cainntear wrote: From becoming. Preventing them from becoming. I'm not saying this to be smug and lord it over you, but I'm assuming you'll interpret it that way and get really angry and it'll burn it into your memory. Then you are A) more likely to notice...; and B) more likely to correct yourself.


...I mostly agree with you: I have yet to read an account of anyone pulling this off who wasn't already a very experienced learner or had guidance or both. For people who aren't in that category, it's easy to get it wrong and waste staggering amounts of your precious time on this planet (I'm reminded here of Keith's attempt to learn Mandarin by watching TV series: in spite of being a very smart guy and racking up a frightening amount of hours, the experiment ultimately failed because it wasn't actually Comprehensible Input).


As promised:



"Input cannot be equated with the staple of much traditional language teaching: explanation about grammar, presentation of vocabulary lists, practice, fill-in-the-blanks, and so on. For mental representation to develop, learners have to hear and see language as it is used to express meaning. There are no shortcuts; representation cannot be taught in the traditional sense of teaching. Input does not guarantee acquisition, however. Nothing does. But acquisition cannot happen in the absence of input."

Both first and second language learners wind up with a highly abstract and complex system we call “language” that defies simple description. Most importantly for the present discussion, the “grammar” of textbooks represents a shorthand way of talking about something that is too abstract and complex to talk about in non-technical terms. What teachers need to understand is that the rules and paradigms in textbooks simply aren’t the things that wind up in our heads. They are not “psychologically real.” Once we understand that mental representation is not the same as textbook rules and paradigms, we can better understand the roles of input
and output.

...without the expression and interpretation of meaning at the core of what we do, input and output become mere techniques.
But input and output are not techniques; they are the very foundations of language acquisition and communication."

VanPatten

December 11, 2017
We should "get over Krashen" ....

Squabbles on social media

Input only
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =14&t=1917

Is it possible to get good output skills without output practice by input alone?
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 7&p=107345

Move to using only native materials
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... nly#p73967

Grammar through massive input (exposure)
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 71&p=54788

Extensive reading and listening. Does it really work?
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 8&start=70

Language: redundancy, accuracy and acquisition
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 35&p=97079

Focus on form
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =14&t=1598
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Re: Examples of Input Only

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:09 pm

If you are studying Akkadian, Sumerian, Babylonian, Yevanic, Eteocretan, Etruscan, etc... it's likely you are studying mostly input only. I say mostly, because I know there is a Babylonian play being performed now.

<never mind, another necro-thread>

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