English as lingua franca

[Serpent]

I quizzed a Dane about this once. "Could you and a Swede talk to one another in your own language and be understood?" She said yes, but it would probably be easier to speak english to each other! (both the Dane and the Swede lived in England at the time.)

There are three separate factors here:
-They were living in England
-Swedes/Norwegians generally find the other language easier than Danish, at least unless they live near Denmark and get lots of exposure
-Some younger people can't do that, but generally it's normal for Scandinavians to just speak their L1 and understand each other (especially for the Swedish-Norwegian pair). However a vast majority of Swedes will tell you they can't *speak* Norwegian, and vice versa.

[PeterMollenburg]

What Josquin says above regarding Germany is even more true for France and Spain, two countries I know well. Yes, in both countries young people have to learn English, it is an obligatory subject in school, but outside of school they will consume media in their own language, not English. Besides, the English language education they get in school can be of very varying quality, so one should not overestimate their ability to enjoy English speaking youtubers or gamers. They find their youtube heroes and listen to pop music in their own language most of the time. Like Germany, these are countries were all films and series are dubbed, so you hardly ever hear English spoken on TV. For example, when they transmitted the speeches of D. Trump and H. Clinton yesterday, they had a professional interpreter who did the "voiceover" live, so you got their speeches in French interpretation.

Yes, English is today's lingua franca, but it is a lingua franca for international business, politics, science and tourism. In major European countries like Germany, Italy, France and Spain, the huge majority of people do not need English to go about their daily lives.

Thank you for this post, I needed it

[Finny]

Not to be a broken record, but as a non-Frenchman who spends a bit of time watching French TV every day, I can confirm that there's next to no English on the majority of channels I visit, which includes France 0, 2, 3, Europe 1, and BFM TV. Now, there is English background music from time to time on some of the French # stations, and iTELE (which is still on strike) has a lot of English language commercials, and Europe 1 has English songs, but the dominant language on all of these stations is French. I realized a while ago that my primary issue was with the English commercials on iTELE, and their strike led me to try out other stations, and I've been much more satisfied as a result.

[Marais]

Not to be a broken record, but as a non-Frenchman who spends a bit of time watching French TV every day, I can confirm that there's next to no English on the majority of channels I visit, which includes France 0, 2, 3, Europe 1, and BFM TV. Now, there is English background music from time to time on some of the French # stations, and iTELE (which is still on strike) has a lot of English language commercials, and Europe 1 has English songs, but the dominant language on all of these stations is French. I realized a while ago that my primary issue was with the English commercials on iTELE, and their strike led me to try out other stations, and I've been much more satisfied as a result.

As somebody who lives in France i can tell you that the radio here (pretty much any popular channel) has English on at least a couple of times every few hours.

I can also tell you that most young people can speak at least basic English and relish the opportunity to use it.

I was on the boat coming from Portsmouth and the 300 or so French kids all seemed to know all the words to the English songs being played on the ship. They also all sat around watching youtube in English.

For some reason people must seem to think i'm making all this stuff up. Just go to youtube and see what is trending in the country. No English speaker ever is going to go and watch youtube in French or German. The opposite is not true.

The French are actually one of the least adept at English when compared with Belgians, Germans, the Swiss or Scandinavians. I don't know about Spain or Italy.

But everyone in Germany speaks English. Kids at school don't get good at English because they have English lessons. They get good at English because they are consuming English native material - ie, media.

[William Camden]

I have been struck by how few Turkish speakers know English. Younger people of Turkish origin living in Germany generally have some grasp of English, but I suspect that the German education system and some exposure to German culture is the reason for that. The Turkish education system appears to be lousy at teaching languages.
I was in Turkey years ago interpreting at a symposium and generally being a fixer etc. I accompanied some Palestinians to their hotel in Istanbul. The hotel staff only spoke Turkish. I ended up interpreting for them, as most of the Palestinians spoke English. Afterwards one of the Palestinians asked why nobody knew English even when they worked in a hotel in central Istanbul. I expressed the view that the education system for most people was not great and a certain nationalism made people resist foreign languages. The Palestinian replied, "I am nationalist but I have learned English."

[William Camden]

There was a comedy sketch on a Turkish TV channel years ago in which an English girl (actually played by a German) comes into a café in Turkey and the men there try to speak English to her. But it is gibberish spiced up with the names of Hollywood actors, football players etc.

[Serpent]

Not to be a broken record, but as a non-Frenchman who spends a bit of time watching French TV every day, I can confirm that there's next to no English on the majority of channels I visit, which includes France 0, 2, 3, Europe 1, and BFM TV. Now, there is English background music from time to time on some of the French # stations, and iTELE (which is still on strike) has a lot of English language commercials, and Europe 1 has English songs, but the dominant language on all of these stations is French. I realized a while ago that my primary issue was with the English commercials on iTELE, and their strike led me to try out other stations, and I've been much more satisfied as a result.

As somebody who lives in France i can tell you that the radio here (pretty much any popular channel) has English on at least a couple of times every few hours.
I can also tell you that most young people can speak at least basic English and relish the opportunity to use it.

Is the glass half-full or half-empty? It's clear that the facts are the same, but Finny and you view them differently.

I was on the boat coming from Portsmouth and the 300 or so French kids all seemed to know all the words to the English songs being played on the ship. They also all sat around watching youtube in English.

For some reason people must seem to think i'm making all this stuff up. Just go to youtube and see what is trending in the country. No English speaker ever is going to go and watch youtube in French or German. The opposite is not true.

I don't think you're making it up, and your anecdata is fascinating for sure. But it's just that - you don't know the background of those kids, right? Maybe they weren't even French but Belgian or Swiss. We don't know how long they had been in England and why.
As for trending youtube videos, well there are different kinds. Many viral videos don't require you to understand whatever language they're in. I've just checked what's trending in Russia and there were only a couple of videos in English - a movie trailer and a football video. (football highlights, funny goals or misses are a common kind of viral videos) Then there's music - which English speaker hasn't watched "Gangnam style" or heard the "Numa-numa song" in Romanian (Dragostea din tei; it got popular pre-youtube though)? And knowing the lyrics is not the same as understanding them.

But everyone in Germany speaks English. Kids at school don't get good at English because they have English lessons. They get good at English because they are consuming English native material - ie, media.

Travel and language classes abroad is at least one factor you're missing (and it may well apply to the kids on the ship too).
And as much as I believe in learning through input, I don't think a 7-year old is going to learn English this way (at least if there are also movies/cartoons in L1). My impression is that in Germany school lays the foundation, and then when kids see what they can do in English, this motivates them to put in more effort at school. On its own neither school nor media is enough (but travel can be). Also, afaiu you need a high level of English to pass the Abitur and go to university.
And well no, not everyone in Germany speaks English. Sure, most do, but the level varies.

[Tillumadoguenirurm]

Most Norwegians doesn't know English because the language education at schools is spectacular in any way, but because the most dominating media is in English.

[DaveBee]

I have been struck by how few Turkish speakers know English. Younger people of Turkish origin living in Germany generally have some grasp of English, but I suspect that the German education system and some exposure to German culture is the reason for that. The Turkish education system appears to be lousy at teaching languages.
I was in Turkey years ago interpreting at a symposium and generally being a fixer etc. I accompanied some Palestinians to their hotel in Istanbul. The hotel staff only spoke Turkish. I ended up interpreting for them, as most of the Palestinians spoke English. Afterwards one of the Palestinians asked why nobody knew English even when they worked in a hotel in central Istanbul. I expressed the view that the education system for most people was not great and a certain nationalism made people resist foreign languages. The Palestinian replied, "I am nationalist but I have learned English."

I'm surprised to hear that. I went on a package holiday to Turkey 10(?) years ago, and we seemed to be perpetually harassed by vendors with useable english.

[emk]

I was on the boat coming from Portsmouth and the 300 or so French kids all seemed to know all the words to the English songs being played on the ship. They also all sat around watching youtube in English.

For some reason people must seem to think i'm making all this stuff up. Just go to youtube and see what is trending in the country. No English speaker ever is going to go and watch youtube in French or German. The opposite is not true.

I don't think you're making it up, and your anecdata is fascinating for sure. But it's just that - you don't know the background of those kids, right? Maybe they weren't even French but Belgian or Swiss. We don't know how long they had been in England and why.

My experience in France is that the level of English varies enormously by age, education and profession. University-educated French people in their 20s, 30s and 40s will frequently speak English to some degree or another. They generally have a strong accent, but they also tend to be happy to have an opportunity to practice. In my profession (programming), the rate of English comprehension is excellent, and I've seen several French technical conferences where all the talks were given in English in order to attract foreign speakers and attendees.

When reading humor sites like Topito, which are aimed at a younger and more Internet-aware generation, I'll occasionally see articles which don't bother to translate English language jokes or Internet "memes." The authors just assume the readers will understand English and get the jokes.

I've also seen a Minecraft play-through video by a young French boy (he sounded about 12) who exclaimed "Epic fail" in English every 30 seconds or so. It was hilarious and adorable.