patrickwilken wrote:...
Which brings us around to the original question by the OP: How necessary is knowing the theory of a language (grammar etc -- i.e., knowing that) for helping you with you doing the language (speaking, reading etc -- the knowing how). Can you get by with just doing the language?
Based purely on my personal experience I would say yes and no. Yes, I found it incredibly helpful to simply do lots and lots of reading and lots and lots of listening. My grammar study has been one very shortish grammar book I read when I was at A1 level. I had no formal classes until I was B2+, and my tutor is avoiding grammar altogether still (we work on pronunciation and discuss German cultural/politics). No, in so far as I couldn't avoid using my L1 all the time as I was learning (learning words on Anki; looking up words in dictionaries). So in this sense I wasn't simply doing my L2 in a pure sense until I was in a strong-intermediate level for German.
People get all worked up when I call attention to poor wording. Here is another fine example that will probably get me called a disruptor and a thread derailer. The original question by the OP is not as stated above. What we have in fact is one person's self-serving interpretation of the original question. This interpretation is interesting but it is not the original question. I would have said - for all it's worth - : My understanding of the original question by the OP is as follows.... Here is the "real" original question:
Has anyone here learned a language to a high level without making any effort to actually study it, and only by consuming native media?
My own understanding of the question is as follows: Have any participants in this website learned a language to a high level at an adult age without any formal study and only by consuming native media? Here is my answer:
Speaking only for myself, I have not attempted to learn any language without some explicit effort focusing on the linguistics of the language. I have rarely taken classes but I have used many tools and methods as well as considerable amounts of native materials. I have no doubt that many people such as immigrants may achieve good levels of oral proficiency with no formal study and by sheer immersion. But for my goal of a minimum of overall B2 proficiency and ultimately C2, formal study, especially of grammar and vocabulary, and working with a tutor are essential. Given that my own education has included formal study of my native French and English, I don't see why I would not take a similar approach in my foreign languages. In fact, I believe that for learning the formal register of written and spoken discourse, including the ability to talk about language in a technical way, explicit study is absolutely necessary.
