Marah wrote:I side with AlexTG and Emk. It's true that "fils à pute" has a different meaning but when people say "on dit "fils de pute" et pas "fils à putes"" it's pretty clear that they only mean to correct the "voiture de Julie" vs "voiture à Julie" issue. Anyway, I've never heard a native actually say "fils à putes" unless they were debating about this grammatical point.
As a fan of French grammar I love to debate these issues. The starting point is that both forms "fils à pute(s)" and "fils de pute" are both currently valid forms in contemporary French. They mean different things. The person who says "On ne dit pas fils à pute, on dit fils de pute" is right when the reference is to the insult of the form "fils de pute". I am not convinced that the person is thinking of the "voiture à Julie" vs "voiture de Julie" example. And even if they are thinking of the latter examples, it remains that "fils à pute(s)" is perfectly good French. Sure, it's rarely used, compared to "fils de pute" which is a very common insult.
Let's do a Google on "fils à pute". Not many hits and most of the hits are comments on the correction of fils à pute to fils de pute. But here is an interesting little dialogue at:
http://danstonchat.com/755.html
- "DE" lisa... "DE" !!! On dit pas "un fils a pute" !!!
- Quoi que... Un fils à putes ça peut aussi marcher ! Si un ami à un fils qui se fait une pute tout les deux jours, je peux donc dire "oh Jean-Michel, t'as vraiment un fils à putes toi !"
...
- Si tu veux expliquer cette règle à un enfant utilise plutôt crotte à nez que fils à pute...
If emk had used crotte à nez, there wouldn't be any problem.
What about "bar à putes"? Nobody seems to say that this should be "bar de putes". The same goes for "motel à putes, bazar à putes". Are "cartes de putes" the same as "cartes à putes"?
Why is "homme à femmes" or "femme à hommes" not corrected to "hommes de femmes" or "femme d'hommes"?
I suggest someone explain why is "fils à papa" not corrected to "fils de papa"?
The fundamental answer is that we are talking about different things. On the other hand, la voiture de Julie and la voiture à Julie are identical objects with two descriptions, the standard one and the non-standard one.
All this may seem like minor points of grammar but they are the foundation for real mastery of the language. These are the very nuances that show how well one can use the language.