super effecting listening comprehension excercise

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super effecting listening comprehension excercise

Postby drp9341 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:07 pm

Hello all! This is my first post on this forum, I just found out the unfortunate fate of HTLAL forums :cry: !
Recently, I have been tackling listening comprehension, the skill I struggle with the most, in a new and incredibly more effective way.

The method I am going to detail below is quite analytical and many may find this unbearably boring, but if you have an understanding of phonetics and a love for the sounds of different languages, I find this method can be extremely useful.

BACKGROUND, and how I arrived at this method
I reached about (my university professor's claim,) a C1 level in Spanish during my 2 and half month stay in Perú during the summer of 2012. Unfortunately, since roughly 4 years ago, I have not taken a class, studied nor been immersed in a Spanish speaking environment.

Here I am, 4 Years later, and I am about to go to Spain for a short trip in a month. About a week ago I started attempting to revive my Spanish by watching telenovelas, but to my unpleasant surprise, I was unable to follow what was going on without really straining myself and rewinding repeatedly. I put on Spanish subtitles, and even then it was difficult for me to read them quickly enough to keep up. Towards the end of my 2 year love affair with Spanish I watched TV exclusively in Spanish, and found it to be nearly as pleasant as watching TV in English.

Despite all this, I could still construct grammatically accurate complex sentences, it just took a moment or two longer, and I still completely understood all of the various sentence structures. For example, even complex sentences, such as those you would find in a well written contemporary Spanish novel or a newspaper, were completely understandable and made perfect sense even though I had forgotten some of the more obscure vocabulary.

So here I was, frustrated that a language which at a time was almost as easy for me to communicate in as is English, was suddenly fuzzy and strange. I could still understand Telemundo's news programs / interviews fine, but trying to understand Mexican/Central American guys talking amongst themselves in real life was a lesson in humility.

After a few hours and days of frustration and slow improvement from my lazy attempt at a Spanish revival via Netflix, I attempted something else.

The Solution to my Problem!
I watched a 6 minute video by a Mexican "Youtuber" by the name of Fichis in the house (https://www.youtube.com/user/fichisinthehouse) at first, I could barely understand 75% of what he was saying. So here's what I did.
1. I watched the video, taking my sweet time. It took me about 20-30 minutes to get through a 6 minute video, despite the fact that if I was to have read a transcript of the video, I could understand it with ease. I rewinded and replayed anything I didn't understand 5-6 times, and this was enough to understand what he was saying word for word.

2. I wrote down all the sentence structures that I did not command actively, but could understand passively, as well as any utterance where the use of a verb tense or reflexive caught me off guard, etc.

3. I watched the video once again. Pausing for a few moments every 30 seconds or so, in order to ensure that I didn't zone out, and to remain hyper-focused.

4. I then analyzed the video again, going more into depth as far as the meaning of the words. For example if he said, "abróchate la blusa, que se te ve la chichis" I would write it down and consciously analyze that sentence, understanding and "thinking about" the semantic function of each and every word in that utterance, (I used this example because it was the best example of a sentence that despite expressing something simple, contrasts greatly with it's English counter-part in terms of structure/syntax.)

...As us language learners know, a word's written form can impact our perception of how it sounds. Our perception of words is affected by our prejudice that derives from how that word is written. It causes us to hear phonemes that aren't present, and causes interference with how we perceive the sounds of a language. This is a result of our brains trying to make what we hear match up with what we think we should be hearing...

5 I slowed down the video to 1/2 speed and transcribed into the IPA anything that sounded different than I would have expected it to sound. I listened to the video at half speed in the way I would listen to an instrument being played, I heard the sounds that were uttered and mentally linked the sounds to the meaning of the word (if this isn't clear let me know I'll elaborate.) I tried to clear my mind of all visual information and simply aggregate the sounds I was hearing to the meaning of what was being said.

6. Now that I was conscious of every sound, and able to pick up almost every phoneme that was uttered, I played the video back on full speed. I payed very close attention to the sentence intonation, Mexican Spanish has a unique prosody, and sentences don't have the same rhythm as they do in English. Just as a multisyllabic word has stressed and unstressed syllables, so do sentences. The prosody/melody of a sentence has to do with it's structure and complexity (the type / number of clauses that form it), and the mood of the sentence. If you're saying something like, "yeah man this is great, but you already know that!" The sentence is going to have a markedly different prosody than a simple, indicative sentence, such as "I love to go to the beach."

...By this point I could have probably recited the entire 6 minute video, about as accurately as I would sing a song I knew by heart.

and then!
I did this AGAIN with a second video following a short 10 minute break, and overall spent the better part of 3-4 hours analyzing and memorizing the two videos in the way I just described above.

Great Results!!
I took a good 20 minute break after working with the two videos, I came back and watched a third video by the same Youtuber. It was a similar, 6-7 minute long funny monologue. Just 4 hours later, I was able to understand the meaning of 95+% of the utterances, and I understood and heard almost every word that was said. Not only that, but the whole video felt easy, enjoyable, and natural to watch. 4 hours ago this video was in a different language, now it was just some guy saying some stuff that made me laugh; I was hardly cognizant of the fact that it was in a language other than English.

Later on that night, I listened to a Spanish rap song that I had listened to a few times over the course of the past few days, "Mi Proprio Cielo" by Nach (a Spaniard, unlike the Mexican Youtuber), and I understood nearly everything that was said. Not only that, but the song had more meaning, I could appreciate the poetry and the ideas he was communicating instead of getting hung up on the language itself.

I have struggled for years with listening comprehension and have poured hundreds of hours into watching TV shows I didn't even enjoy just to try to improve. I could have spent 20 hours watching telenovelas with Spanish Subtitles and not have gotten a third of the results I got in these mere 4 hours.

I understand that this may be a little abstract or complex for someone just getting into language learning, but for the veterans out there, spending an intensely focused 3-4 hours doing this, even once a week, can really give your listening skills, speaking skills and even your accent some serious progress.

I also am aware that the fact I am "reviving" a language that was once at a much higher level instead of learning listening comprehension in the first place played a big part in my success, but it seems that I improved, at least temporarily, beyond even what I was capable of in the past, (although I cannot be certain as this youtube video didn't exist back in my "spanish prime.")!!

Please let me know what you think, if you think there is anything I should tweak, or anything I should add, I would be happy to try and improve this method even further, and I hope someone out there finds this useful! If I would have done this instead of passive listening, I could have progressed much more in the same amount of time.

Thanks!
- Danny
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Re: super effecting listening comprehension excercise

Postby jacob_kap » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:37 pm

Seems like a great and absolutely reasonable method to work with in order to improve your listening comprehension skills. I would just say that this method might be great but I guess it would work only for a learner who is already kind of blended into his target language, as a beginner or even a learner in an intermediate level wouldn't be able to get all words without the script. I mean, if there is a language I don't know well, I wouldn't get all words from listening even if I tried very hard, as some speakers speak fairly fast and unclear (even for an intermediate learner as said before).
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Re: super effecting listening comprehension excercise

Postby drp9341 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:57 pm

jacob_kap wrote:Seems like a great and absolutely reasonable method to work with in order to improve your listening comprehension skills. I would just say that this method might be great but I guess it would work only for a learner who is already kind of blended into his target language, as a beginner or even a learner in an intermediate level wouldn't be able to get all words without the script. I mean, if there is a language I don't know well, I wouldn't get all words from listening even if I tried very hard, as some speakers speak fairly fast and unclear (even for an intermediate learner as said before).


If only it was easier to find true native material with transcripts!

I believe this method would work wonders for the average language student at any major university who despite "knowing" the language well in terms of structure, grammar and vocabulary, has a very hard time understanding rapid native speech.

I knew plenty of students in my upper division Spanish class a few years ago who could correctly write and read grammatically complex sentences and conjugate verbs with ease, but they would often be completely lost when the professor went on a tangent, as their comprehension was largely reliant on context, as they didn't comprehend the majority of the utterances.

I genuinely couldn't believe how well this worked for me yesterday. Today I listened to some Spanish TV and radio and my listening comprehension is still nearly (although not quite) what it was yesterday after my "intensive" study session.
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Re: super effecting listening comprehension excercise

Postby NoManches » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:43 pm

This is some great advice! I am trying to improve my listening comprehension and am currently watching a video from the youtuber you suggested.

I have tried transcribing before but my transcribing was a bit different than yours. First, I've never messed around with IPA and therefore have never transcribed into IPA. Also, after transcribing I don't really "think" about the meaning of the words. I'll try to understand them but don't analyze them on the same level as you do. Perhaps this is what I need to do in order to really maximize my listening skills.

I too have watched thousands of hours of tv shows that I didn't enjoy just to make improvements. I think I'll give your method a shot to see if it helps me out any.

One thing I'm really noticing right now is that I understand almost all of what he is saying, missing some words here and there, but it's taking my brain longer than I want to comprehend everything and make sense of it all. I'll hear 90% of the words being said and only get the gist....that is, by the time my brain can make sense of everything he is already moving on to the next sentence. Not sure how ti improve on this other than more listening :roll:
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Re: super effecting listening comprehension excercise

Postby Montmorency » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:11 am

@Danny,

Great posting. It reminds us all that in order to improve listening comprehension, we have to actually listen. And my own take on this (probably not widely shared here) is that watching and listening is not the same as just listening.

You seem to have at least partly transcribed the video.

I was wondering if you might have achieved similar results just by doing a straight text transcription (i.e. not IPA and not analysing structures) of the whole video? I know from experience (not with Spanish I hasten to add) that transcribing even just a few minutes of native audio can take an inordinate amount of time, and many rewinds and repetitions. But it's worth the effort.

Edit:
I genuinely couldn't believe how well this worked for me yesterday. Today I listened to some Spanish TV and radio and my listening comprehension is still nearly (although not quite) what it was yesterday after my "intensive" study session.


That's interesting. So there is some "decay" setting in, although only a small amount after one day. A bit like the famous "forgetting curve". i wonder what is the best way to minimise this "decay"? Would it be to do some intensive study each day, or just to keep listening to lots of native audio, and try not to miss a day?

Or: perhaps any time one notices a fall-off of understanding when tackling native audio, go back to the intensive work for a period, without actually having to do it every day?
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Re: super effecting listening comprehension excercise

Postby DangerDave2010 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:49 pm

Thy the listening competence lessons from GLOSS, they should be challenging for you level, and have a transcript.
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Re: super effecting listening comprehension excercise

Postby drp9341 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:18 pm

I was wondering if you might have achieved similar results just by doing a straight text transcription (i.e. not IPA and not analysing structures) of the whole video? I know from experience (not with Spanish I hasten to add) that transcribing even just a few minutes of native audio can take an inordinate amount of time, and many rewinds and repetitions. But it's worth the effort.


I only used IPA to transcribe portions of the audio where the pronunciation "caught me off guard". Or in other words, when the way he said something differed from how I expected it to be said. It could be something as simple as combing the last vowel of a word with the first vowel of the following word, or it can be, for example, how during rapid speech phonemes are omitted.

The primary goal of analyzing the text was not to learn new structures and vocab and what not, It was more to ensure that I understood exactly what he was communicating. On a deeper level, I was did my best to be aware of the semantic function of each word in the sentence. Since prosody and meaning are often linked, I assumed that a deep understanding of what he was trying to say and whether it was said with sarcasm etc. would allow me to better understand the relation between prosody and meaning.

That's interesting. So there is some "decay" setting in, although only a small amount after one day. A bit like the famous "forgetting curve". i wonder what is the best way to minimise this "decay"? Would it be to do some intensive study each day, or just to keep listening to lots of native audio, and try not to miss a day?

Or: perhaps any time one notices a fall-off of understanding when tackling native audio, go back to the intensive work for a period, without actually having to do it every day?



great question. When my listening comprehension was much worse, it required greater mental resources to listen to and comprehend a video like the one above. I would understand it, get most of the jokes, but I would miss words here or there, and have to rely on context to figure them out. Now, after having spent an intensive four hours learning the rhythm of the language by heart, I am able to listen to the audio easily and pleasurably. This means that now when I listen to native audio I am not struggling to hear the words, instead I can choose to either keep listening with my focus being on continuing to familiarize myself with how things sound when they are spoken in Spanish, or listen with the intent of learning new vocabulary and structures, since I am able to hear nearly every word. Even words that I don't know, I can hear how they sound and then look them up. Also, I could just sit back and enjoy more Spanish media, without worrying about language learning or phonology, which also reinforces the language.


Side Note
We have in our minds, as native speakers, auditory representations of all the words of our native language. We know how words should sound, and we know how to say long winded things with the proper rhythm; we know how the language should sound.

As learners most of us learn that the word "Verdad" is actually pronounced /beɾ.ð̞áð̞/ and not /vér.dad/ as an english speaker would assume.
We can use the IPA to get some very useful insight into how a word is pronounced, however we are not actually learning, in the way a musician learns a melody or a note, the actual sound of the word. We are using the IPA, (or transcription or whatever) to create in our heads a sound for that word that approximates what we believe it's supposed to sound like, given the information we gathered from a text based, visual resource.

There's a reason that a lot of Hispanic-Americans, despite being pretty limited as far as their Spanish Speaking ability goes, pronounce everything perfect or damn near perfect. It's because they learned that this string of sounds means this, they learned the sounds.

This can lead to an impeccable accent as well. If we know how the words sound, if we know how the melody of sentence "flows", then we can correct our own mistakes as we go on speaking that language, and this can lead to a great pronunciation, and an exceptional level of listening comprehension.
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Re: super effecting listening comprehension excercise

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:58 pm

Great post(s)! I have nothing to add, except that I support the idea that detailed study can be very rewarding. I've done super-detailed transcriptions of (Irish) music, and after each piece, I really knew it inside-out. Same thing with texts I've worked with (especially when preparing for exams).

And by the way, Olle Kjellin's chorusing method happens to suggest that working with even just limited content can lead to good results - as regards prosody.
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Re: super effecting listening comprehension excercise

Postby galaxyrocker » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:45 am

jeff_lindqvist wrote:(especially when preparing for exams).



Would you care to elaborate on this? assuming you mean focusing on listening in particular, which is my main goal for the next 2 weeks until I take the TEG.
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Re: super effecting listening comprehension excercise

Postby M23 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:12 am

I'll be curious to hear how your trip to Spain goes with regard to listening comprehension, and to see if you have a similar experience to what my girlfriend and I had. Since we are Americans our ears are accustom to Mexican/Central American/South American Spanish, and I figured Spain Spanish would not be too rough since some of the learning materials I used when I first started learning were made by native speakers from Spain. When we finally got to Spain I discovered that I could hardly understand the vast majority of people that we spoke with. My girlfriend had the same problem and she speaks at a higher level than I do.
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