Why do many people think that language self-studying is a myth?

[PeterMollenburg]

I think many people aren't aware how many materials and tools are out there to help us. My seminar in MA was all about 'how people learn languages' and the importance of context and 'we don't learn in vacuum' and 'memorization strategies' and 'emotions' but not once were Anki or Learning With Texts mentioned. Actually, I probably could have done a presentation on those in year 2, but even back then, I didn't know about LWT! I only discovered it a week ago! And I frequented the old HTLAL, and I frequent this site and UniLang, so you would think I would know what is out there. And oh, a lot of sources, texts and tools are free. Even for seemingly rare/obscure languages.

/end rant

I totally agree. I can't remember a single teacher who could adequately recommend even native input. When teachers condition you into thinking that the wild language in the real life is too hard for you at a B1-B2 level, and likely to always be, you hardly start to search tv series or native books to learn with. Being taught that grammar is a difficult thing and pronunciation too tricky without a teacher (as if most people from language classes had good pronunciation), that is hardly the ground for seeking external resources. And being used to the "modern" "fun" coursebooks without proper explanations and wordlists, that really makes one believe using any coursebook without a teacher is impossible and a foolish adventure.

In terms of pronunciation I entirely agree. I think it has been MUCH better for me to focus on pronunciation through self study than being in a class. As soon as I've gone to meet ups with other French learners their pronunciation bothers me and I would be - perhaps in a tad of a haughty or pompous attitude - predominantly annoyed with being surrounded by predominantly poor pronunciation. At home, far from any classroom, far from any Francophone region in fact I have loads of decent content to work on good pronunciation while hearing it from sources with authentic accents. The classroom I think works against very good pronunciation.

[galaxyrocker]

The classroom I think works against very good pronunciation.

I agree with this completely, and will add that the classroom can even work against good grammatical constructions. If most your interactions are done with non-native speakers, you're easily going to fossilize their mistakes, both in grammar and in pronunciation. It's actually what's happening in Ireland right now, since 90% of the teachers (Made up stat, but by far the majority) are non-native speakers who never learned it correctly themselves. So the mistakes just get passed on, under the guise of "good Irish".

That said, I don't hate classes, and think they can be absolutely useful. If you have a native speaker teacher who is willing to interact with you outside of class time (thankfully all of my Irish teachers were) and perhaps even help you progress at a rate quicker than the class (again, thankfully all mine were) classes are a great way to stay motivated and get information in a condensed way, while changing the majority of your interaction to interacting with natives instead of non-natives. I recognize I would never have gotten as far as I did in Irish without classes and the access to native speakers they provide. I also realize that I do have issues sticking with a second language, because as soon as life gets busy again I tend to drop it, something that can't exist with a class (assuming you're getting a grade, etc.)

[PeterMollenburg]

The classroom I think works against very good pronunciation.

I agree with this completely, and will add that the classroom can even work against good grammatical constructions. If most your interactions are done with non-native speakers, you're easily going to fossilize their mistakes, both in grammar and in pronunciation. It's actually what's happening in Ireland right now, since 90% of the teachers (Made up stat, but by far the majority) are non-native speakers who never learned it correctly themselves. So the mistakes just get passed on, under the guise of "good Irish".

I have actually hypothesized thst this is why Indians continue to have the accent they do when speaking English. Nearly all teachers have an accent and reinforce this. It's then developped into their own 'Indian accent'. I could be WAY off here though.

[Hank]

Going back to the time before I started learning Spanish, I didn't necessarily think of self-study as a myth. I just didn't realize it was something a person could do. (Which seems silly now because I used self-study to learn to play guitar.) How do you learn a language without a teacher? I would look at the "adult" course catalog for the local community college and wish that I could take the Spanish classes, but with my work schedule it just wasn't practical. I had no clue that there were so many resources out there for self-study.

[sjintje]

If you go to classes in your target country, the variety of international accents and grammar consstructions of the students will all cancel each other out, and you will end up speaking perfect neutral target language.

[Cavesa]

If you go to classes in your target country, the variety of international accents and grammar consstructions of the students will all cancel each other out, and you will end up speaking perfect neutral target language.

Not necessarily. My first hand experience confirms that students from various language backgrounds can teach each other mistakes. The results can be, for example, a Spanish native who makes Italian and English based mistakes on top of their own. The only person I've seen resist completely this phenomenon was a Japanese guy, who had so many troubles of his own on the plate that there was simply no space for more at the moment.