Are language learners more sensitive to minoritised languages?

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Querneus
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Re: Are language learners more sensitive to minoritised languages?

Postby Querneus » Sat Feb 24, 2024 5:09 pm

I'd like to get into learning my local indigenous languages (Halkomelem, and the equally uncommonly-heard Cree due to migration to Vancouver), but the usual political issues regarding learning indigenous languages in North America keep me away. I once met a native speaker of Halkomelem and he seemed to pretty welcome the idea of other people learning Halkomelem, but then again, there's also the thing of (often elderly) native speakers having an opinion in favour of outsider learners vs. the young, deprived of their ancestral language, having another against them. And it's for wholly understandable circumstances, admittedly, but still.

I actually know three people (all three are young and racially very White) who each love a specific North American indigenous language and have dived deep into them, and so far all three have preferred to learn from a distance, away from native speakers and the indigenous communities in order to avoid any chances of political problems entirely...

Ug_Caveman wrote:
Le Baron wrote:Although it has it's own peculiarities the French in Brussels is just ordinary French.

laughs in 'nonante'

"Nonante" is ordinary French, what are you talking about? :D
Last edited by Querneus on Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are language learners more sensitive to minoritised languages?

Postby Le Baron » Sat Feb 24, 2024 5:09 pm

Ug_Caveman wrote:laughs in 'nonante'

But they still say quatre-vingt, unlike some of the Swiss. In Wallon it's ûtante.
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Re: Are language learners more sensitive to minoritised languages?

Postby iguanamon » Sat Feb 24, 2024 5:28 pm

Having visited Barcelona, it inspired me to learn Catalan. The next time I visit Spain, I'd like to explore more of Catalunya.

I live in the Virgin Islands, which is an English-speaking Territory. That being said, there is a substantial minority Spanish-speaking community; a minority Lesser Antilles Creole French-speaking (Kwéyòl) community; a small Haitian Creole (Kreyòl ayisyen) community. Still, everyone speaks English. There are plenty of "Continentals", Americans from the mainland US, who live here without speaking any other language but English and feel no need or desire to learn any other language. Even with English, it helps to know the local English variant vocabulary, when to use it effectively and not in a mocking manner.

There's a lot of "ifs" in the OP's post. Of course, as someone who has learned languages to a high level and has benefited from their use, I would want to learn the minority languages where I lived. If I was in the Val d'Aran... I'd definitely learn Aranés. If I were in Wales, I'd want to learn Welsh. If I were living in Peru/Bolivia- Quechua/Aymara.

Even though I already know the larger standard languages, knowing and speaking minority languages gives me an entree into a better interaction with local people who appreciate that I have made the effort. I've found no downsides to learning the minority languages I've learned.
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Re: Are language learners more sensitive to minoritised languages?

Postby Ug_Caveman » Sat Feb 24, 2024 5:30 pm

Ug_Caveman wrote:I do admit, my interest has been perked by West Frisian as a complement to Dutch. I have some of the (very limited group of) materials for it on my bookshelf. A couple of grammars and readers alongside my Afrikaans materials.

Expanding on my answer, I do have a fairly enduring interest in learning Welsh to reconnect with my family history. Not too many generations ago it was the primary language on both sides of my family. Plus I can make use of the S4C channel on TV.
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Re: Are language learners more sensitive to minoritised languages?

Postby Le Baron » Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:14 pm

Ug_Caveman wrote:Expanding on my answer, I do have a fairly enduring interest in learning Welsh to reconnect with my family history. Not too many generations ago it was the primary language on both sides of my family. Plus I can make use of the S4C channel on TV.

I tried to get a school I was at to teach Welsh. It came to nothing. Later on I lived above an accountants right next to Menai Bridge on the island and they filmed the soap opera Rownd a Rownd 100 meters away facing. There is (or was then) an exterior set with a row of three shops, which I originally thought was actual shops and tried to go in. :lol: I registered my name to be an extra. I was in a scene in a video shop, lurking in the background.

This is the part of the set:

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Re: Are language learners more sensitive to minoritised languages?

Postby Chung » Sat Feb 24, 2024 7:08 pm

nooj wrote:After perusing through innumerable "expat" groups, innumerable tourist groups, after having talked to many immigrants like myself, and in general, realising that 90% of us tends to not learn or use the minoritised language, I wonder if we (with a special interest in learning languages) would be any better. I myself believe that we wouldn't be any better, and that no matter the level of language learning obsession that one might have, we would still be conditioned by the same conditions as everyone else.

If you went to Barcelona, Dublin or Strasbourg, would you learn first and foremost (or only) Spanish, English or French, or would you also learn Catalan, Irish and Alsatian?


I can speak only for myself.

In general, if I'd be in place for at least a month with sufficient free time to learn on my own regularly (up to 1 hour per day), I would indeed try to learn something of the local minority language. Let's say something like A1 so that I can read signs and perform very rudimentary exchanges in the minority language if needed. Additional progress, would be governed by day-to-day needs plus personal interest. If I were in Barcelona, I'd still prioritize learning Spanish to a useful level because of the reality of how frequently the language is used there. Learning the rudiments of Catalan would take second place but I wouldn't turn my nose at it out of hand.

To turn the situation into something that I could readily identify with, if I were in Sápmi for a more than a month, I'd set out to learn at least one of the local Saamic languages beyond A1 (obviously the more time available, the more likely I could pull it off), on top of either improving my Finnish through classes and self-study or learning Norwegian or Swedish from scratch in similar ways as Finnish. You can probably guess that I'd do this because I've been fascinated by Uralic languages for a long time. While your love of Romance languages is likely stronger than my love of Uralic languages, I do have enough in the tank so that if I were living in a region or town where something Uralic is used regularly and often in everyday life, then I'd sign up for classes or snap up as many resources as possible to have a chance at attaining something at least on the verge of basic fluency (~B1-B2). Even then I'd focus on learning it for more prosaic tasks like general communication and being able to take in an "duller" non-fiction media, as well as to widen my understanding of linguistic typology in general. Unlike you, I've never gotten that much into poetry, literature or songs in any language.
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Re: Are language learners more sensitive to minoritised languages?

Postby Cainntear » Sat Feb 24, 2024 7:39 pm

Le Baron wrote:Later on I lived above an accountants right next to Menai Bridge on the island and they filmed the soap opera Rownd a Rownd 100 meters away facing.
Mae'n well 'da fi Pobol y Cwm... ;)
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Re: Are language learners more sensitive to minoritised languages?

Postby Le Baron » Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:25 pm

Cainntear wrote:Mae'n well 'da fi Pobol y Cwm... ;)

Mae Round and Round yn opera sebon ieuenctid. Unfortunately I can't understand any of them.

Are there any native Welsh speakers on this forum?
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Re: Are language learners more sensitive to minoritised languages?

Postby nooj » Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:29 pm

Ug_Caveman wrote:Expanding on my answer, I do have a fairly enduring interest in learning Welsh to reconnect with my family history. Not too many generations ago it was the primary language on both sides of my family. Plus I can make use of the S4C channel on TV.




One thing I'm not a big fan of in S4C is the use of English subtitles. If there were to be English subtitles, I'd want it to be accompanied by Welsh subtitles as well.
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Re: Are language learners more sensitive to minoritised languages?

Postby guyome » Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:41 pm

nooj wrote:One thing I'm not a big fan of in S4C is the use of English subtitles. If there were to be English subtitles, I'd want it to be accompanied by Welsh subtitles as well.
It's been some time since I watched anything there but I think they do offer Welsh subtitles.

On the topic at hand, I've meet enough language learners that had only contempt for minority/smaller/dying/endangered languages to think that this group is not substantially different from the general public.

Edit. Yes, they do have Welsh subtitles (at least for the couple of programs I sampled).
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