To L2 subtitles or no?

[Tomás]

I can watch TV shows for toddlers without subtitles and understand. I can watch adult tv with L2 subtitles and understand. Which is better for my progress?

I feel that with L2 subtitles I am basically practicing reading, albeit very fast reading. My reading already outpaces my listening, and I don't know if my listening is really improving if I read the subtitles.

OTOH, watching nothing but toddlers' TV gets old quickly. Any opinions from more experienced learners would be appreciated.

[tomgosse]

If I can find them I prefer L2 videos with subtitles. I study French and my problems is that most French movies available in the United States only have English subtitles. I have heard of people watching English movies with French subtitles and turning off the audio, but I have not tried that.

[IchBinEinPoly]

I try not to glance at the subtitles all the time. But if you try and pay attention to the audio while reading, almost as if you were doing L-R, subtitles are enormously helpful to establish natural listening (the point where you may not understand every word in the language, but you are able to distinguish and separate nearly ever word in the language (rather than it being an incoherent mess), which allows you to look up words you don't know)

[Stelle]

TV for toddlers is painful. The slow repetition might be appropriate for adults on a linguistic level, but definitely not on a cognitive level!

Have you tried watching TV shows aimed at learners? They can be slow and repetitive, but they're at least marginally interesting for actual grown-ups. Here are some of my favourites in Spanish:

Destinos - cheesy, dated, and full of shoulder pads. Destinos is what made me realize that yes, I could learn Spanish. I watched all 52 episodes online, and didn't bother trying to find any of the other print and audio resources that make up the program.

Extr@ en español - cheesy sitcom aimed at learners, complete with laugh track. I didn't watch the whole series, since I found it a bit too late in my Spanish journey. But what I watched was both silly and charming. I definitely would have watched the whole series as a beginner with a bit of experience.

Mi Vida loca - interactive video course from the BBC. It's a mystery story. If you don't want to do the exercises, you can skip over them and just watch the story. This is a good resource for absolute beginners.

[Speakeasy]

The usefulness of the presence of subtitles in foreign language learning is still a matter for debate. There have been numerous serious clinical studies “proving” that the presence of subtitles enhances the acquisition of a foreign language. Since these studies were conducted within the realm of the social sciences, we should not be surprised that there are almost as many studies “proving” that, not only does the presence of subtitles not enhance the acquisition of a foreign language, their presence actual impedes learning! My approach has been to consider subtitles as “training wheels” which will eventually have to come off … the sooner the better.

[Serpent]

More options:

• adult TV with no subtitles
• TV for kids and teens (generally more predictable and with less sophisticated vocabulary)
• learning not to read the subs all the time (using subs is a skill like any other)
• if available, working with the transcript in advance
• watching more than once

In general, many learners have seen improvement from watching one or more seasons of the same show. emk, Cavesa, Radioclare, iguanamon are some of the members who did. It's going to be difficult in the beginning. When I started watching the Montenegrin series that Clare had already seen, I kept asking her about who's who and anything that confused me. If there's nobody to ask, you might have to watch the early episodes several times.

Also, I find that when your listening is behind, audiobooks might be a better choice than TV. Visual materials are great for picking up new words, but if you already know them in writing, it's more efficient just to see them. Of course it's important to let go of the transcripts/accompanying text eventually.

And yeah I loved Destinos

[William Camden]

I have noticed that the Dutch watch English-language films or TV shows with Dutch subtitles whereas the Germans dub them into German. Whether this reflects the particularly high level of Dutch familiarity with English, encourages it or is irrelevant to it, I couldn't say.
Sometimes when studying a language I pay attention to subtitles in that language, say, available on a DVD.

[jeff_lindqvist]

Tomás, you may find this post by Expugnator relevant.

Personally, if subtitles help me understand what's going on, I use them. The sound quality/mix isn't always the best, and I turn on the subtitles even for content in my native Swedish - unless I'm 100% sure that I'll hear everything super-clearly.

I don't get the idea that the Dutch (and others, like Scandinavians) would use English audio+Dutch subtitles because they are familiar with English. I've always thought that it's everyone else who don't think they're able to read at the same time. And to some extent, they probably aren't, or at least aren't used to it. I once chatted with a person who was very surprised that we at all could watch movies in other languages than Swedish ( ), that we actually read Swedish at the same time ( ), and that it must be because we all knew English ( ).

Hey, I'd watch something in Klingon with Swedish/English subtitles if ever there were such a movie, and it's not because I (according to the suggested reason) am familiar with... Klingon. It's because I (and everybody else who has watched thousands of foreign-language movies) can read subtitles in a split-second.

[Tomás]

TV for toddlers is painful. The slow repetition might be appropriate for adults on a linguistic level, but definitely not on a cognitive level!

Have you tried watching TV shows aimed at learners? They can be slow and repetitive, but they're at least marginally interesting for actual grown-ups. Here are some of my favourites in Spanish:

Destinos - cheesy, dated, and full of shoulder pads. Destinos is what made me realize that yes, I could learn Spanish. I watched all 52 episodes online, and didn't bother trying to find any of the other print and audio resources that make up the program.

Extr@ en español - cheesy sitcom aimed at learners, complete with laugh track. I didn't watch the whole series, since I found it a bit too late in my Spanish journey. But what I watched was both silly and charming. I definitely would have watched the whole series as a beginner with a bit of experience.

Mi Vida loca - interactive video course from the BBC. It's a mystery story. If you don't want to do the exercises, you can skip over them and just watch the story. This is a good resource for absolute beginners.

I've never been able to get Mi Vida Loca to work, but I've definitely been watching Extras and Destinos. In fact, it was Raquel and Arturo's deadly boring romance that inspired me to seek out other shows. Now I've made it to Episode 18 and we are finally in Puerto Rico and free of Arturo.

[iguanamon]

Cross posted with your last post. Yes, definitely finish Destinos!