Netflix to crack down on VPN streaming...

[Cainntear]

But I understand why people from the better countries see it differently. The priviledge.

Better countries? Privilege? Really? Do you think Netflix gives me content in the languages I want? No — last time I looked at it (free trial) they had a dozen or so foreign language films and I’d already seen most of them.

No, Netflix where I am contains almost nothing but English, and almost none of that spoken the way I speak. At least your Czech TV isn't a blend of accents and grammar from hundreds and thousands of miles away that is leading kids in your home town to sound like they’re from a foreign country.

And when people *do* speak like me on TV, it’s presented as a marker of at best poor education, at worst drunkenness, violence and criminality.

There are many ways I am privileged, but TV and video streaming is certainly not one of them.

And when they refuse to sell some people based on nationality, it is called discrimination and most countries actively fight against that. You cannot just refuse to make someone a coffee just because they are from a certain country, can you?

There’s a difference between nationality and geography though, or is it “discrimination” that Starbucks don’t have a branch in my village?

[edit: is->isn't]

[Serpent]

While this post was obviously some random person seeking a Netflix VPN, if someone joined and their first post was asking where to find good quality mp3s for xyz Linguaphone course and the response was ridicule and beratement, I doubt they would be back to contribute to the other more fruitful discussions of the forum, and will very easily find the audio anyway.

Normally, if someone asks for illegal downloads, the post is just rejected or removed asap. However, VPN itself is not illegal, so that's how the user got a benefit of doubt.

[Cavesa]

I do wish that media companies would get their heads out of their asses when it comes to licensing and foreign works. But foreign language learners are a small slice of the market, so they have no incentive to do things properly. Still things are a lot better than they used to be at least.

Not really. The EU claims language learning to be one of the priorities. A necessity to support the united market of workforce. And every now and then, we hear complaints from the EU officials, from employers, from various government funded polls, about the langauge skills of people.

They think about various stupid ways to create more marketing campains for langauge learning. That is useless, the language schools are full, the advertisements are everywhere, it simply doesn't work enough. The language learners or potential language learners are a majority of the market in the non-anglophone countries. The successful language learners (or those on their way to success) are a tiny piece of the market

The solution are the tv series. Look at my generation and English. People either watch tv series in original and speak good English, or they don't. Easy.

So, this is one of the cases, where EU (or other international organisations) should protect the "small slice" of the market. And simply order companies like Netflix to be reasonable. One big company suffices. When it find out the money coming from this, the rest will follow.

So I watch second-tier Russian stuff on youtube and Netflix originals dubbed into Italian. Somehow, I'm still alive.

It's not about not being "alive". It's about learning from fun resources being so much more efficient and doable. And also it is about the main purpose of the entertainment industry. To escape our lives. My life sucks. There is little I like about it. I am stuck in a degree I hate, with ambitions I have no chance of fulfilling and the second "prize" being a ruined life (and no way out), in a family full of dying and suffering with health that doesn't fit my age. In a country I despise, where it is difficult to buy even food (just like with Netflix. We have the same prices but much lower quality).

That is the purpose of Netflix and similar tools. Escaping unchangeable pointless lives. Documentaries and left overs no one bothered to "protect" don't work.

I have learnt my languages thanks to piracy and thanks to escaping a life I don't want to live. It's that simple.

But I understand why people from the better countries see it differently. The priviledge.

Better countries? Privilege? Really? Do you think Netflix gives me content in the languages I want? No — last time I looked at it (free trial) they had a dozen or so foreign language films and I’d already seen most of them.

No, Netflix where I am contains almost nothing but English, and almost none of that spoken the way I speak.

A good point. You get the advantage of having the full content in English (we really have very little content in general), but the foreign languages are seriously underrepresented.

Well, that's why I'd expect you to agree about geoblocking in general. If you were allowed to use a global Netflix, or to pay for the German/French/Spanish/Italian Amazon Streaming, or for the local channels from the individual countries.

At least your Czech TV is a blend of accents and grammar from hundreds and thousands of miles away that is leading kids in your home town to sound like they’re from a foreign country.

?? What?

What blend of accents and grammar? Czech TV doesn't show anything in foreign languages. A few movies (usually very old) get showed in original with subtitles on one channel. Other than that, everything is dubbed. And the same few people are being used in the dubbing over and over again.

You can turn on any channel, any movie, from anywhere on the world. The same two dozen Czech voices will be there.

Kids from my home town can sound like they're from a foreign country, if they using pirate streaming or VPN. Or if their parents can afford to send them abroad for a year, that is the other option.

And when people *do* speak like me on TV, it’s presented as a marker of at best poor education, at worst drunkenness, violence and criminality.

There are many ways I am privileged, but TV and video streaming is certainly not one of them.

When my nationality is represented on TV, it is just criminals with a Russian accent. Poor education, violence, criminality, drugs, prostitution. No wonder a Czech accent (any slavic accent, people don't bother to make differences) often brings negative reactions abroad.

The only exception was Stargate Atlantis. The only great representation of this language and nation ion TV worldwide.

When the way I speak is represented on the national TV, people from outside Prague throw a fit about "mistakes" and wrong language being shown. When other regional Czech dialects are represented, the characters are played by actors from a different region, who mess up (logically).

And when they refuse to sell some people based on nationality, it is called discrimination and most countries actively fight against that. You cannot just refuse to make someone a coffee just because they are from a certain country, can you?

There’s a difference between nationality and geography though, or is it “discrimination” that Starbucks don’t have a branch in my village?

Geography doesn't exist on the internet. That is the main advantage of it. And this stupid industry refuses to accept that.

That is the huge difference. The Starbucks would have to get a physical space, get a truck deliver the coffee to that shop, hire people to make it, cover the losses from your village being too small perhaps. That is geography.

All Netflix would have to do would be removing a few pieces of code and counting our money. There is no real reason for the restrictions, except for the belief we are not worth equal treatment as customers and the expectation we are so stupid we'll pay for that. That is discrimination.

[Cainntear]

Well, that's why I'd expect you to agree about geoblocking in general. If you were allowed to use a global Netflix, or to pay for the German/French/Spanish/Italian Amazon Streaming, or for the local channels from the individual countries.

I do, and I've long felt that geoblocking within the EU should be stopped because of the whole freedom of movement thing. There are many languages in Europe that you can't get media for in various countries, and this is particularly an issue for families, as lack of kids' entertainment in the home language is going to lead to poorer language skills in the kids, and therefore make going home more difficult.00

At least your Czech TV is a blend of accents and grammar from hundreds and thousands of miles away that is leading kids in your home town to sound like they’re from a foreign country.

?? What?

Typo, I meant isn't. My TV is full of Americans and English people, and precious few Scottish people. The few Scottish people we have are rarely role models. Kids are growing up in Scotland unable to pronounce "loch". It's sad.

Geography doesn't exist on the internet. That is the main advantage of it. And this stupid industry refuses to accept that.

Geography exists, full stop.

All Netflix would have to do would be removing a few pieces of code and counting our money. There is no real reason for the restrictions, except for the belief we are not worth equal treatment as customers and the expectation we are so stupid we'll pay for that. That is discrimination.

No, because Netflix do not have the legal right to remove that code and to take your money.
Firstly, most of Netflix's content has been licensed from someone else, and those licenses are tied to geography. If someone only sells them the rights to show the content in the USA, they can only sell it in the USA.

Then we have the issue of the local versions. As I've already said, the people paying for redubs, subs, local recuts and certification aren't the people who made the original film. Sometimes they're owned by the same company, sometimes they aren't; either way, it's someone else's budget. People investing in these things need to know they'll at least get their money back. But what happens if original language versions start competing with the localised versions? Budgets drop, quality drops and then people abandon it. You create a new ghetto where people without good English are shut out completely.

So why haven't the EU opened up this market? As you say, it seems like a major part of their core mission.

Well, many countries have legally enforceable classification of TV and film, and if you want to be cleared for release, you've got to pay to go through the process. What would that mean for a pan-European video streaming? Would you have to get classification for release in every country in the union before you were able to upload to a streaming site? How would you deal with the matter of differing (and possibly conflicting) requests for recuts from the different classification boards?
Imagine a team of Czech student filmmakers making a film in Czech on a near-zero budget, but unable to release it in the Czech Republic because they can't afford to go through Irish classification, or who can't show their full edit to Czech people because the British Board of Film Classification object to a nude scene.

Before there can be pan-European streaming, there has to be pan-European classification, and that's not going to happen any time soon....

[Cavesa]

But what happens if original language versions start competing with the localised versions? Budgets drop, quality drops and then people abandon it. You create a new ghetto where people without good English are shut out completely.

Exactly, that is the point! They move to do better jobs. What happened, when cars started competing with horse carriages? When washing machines started competing with washboards? The CDs with cassettes? The localised versions are exploiting and supporting low education of people. That is among other things unethical. Globalisation of the market will improve education and also force the people damaging the movies to start doing something else.

Perhaps, if all those people are cut of their easy money based on abusing already successful works of others, they will put more efforts into creating their own. So shutting this down could actually lead to much more production in the local languages.

So why haven't the EU opened up this market? As you say, it seems like a major part of their core mission.

Well, many countries have legally enforceable classification of TV and film, and if you want to be cleared for release, you've got to pay to go through the process. What would that mean for a pan-European video streaming? Would you have to get classification for release in every country in the union before you were able to upload to a streaming site? How would you deal with the matter of differing (and possibly conflicting) requests for recuts from the different classification boards?
Imagine a team of Czech student filmmakers making a film in Czech on a near-zero budget, but unable to release it in the Czech Republic because they can't afford to go through Irish classification, or who can't show their full edit to Czech people because the British Board of Film Classification object to a nude scene.

Before there can be pan-European streaming, there has to be pan-European classification, and that's not going to happen any time soon....

This should be a priority. Things like this are what makes the europeans see the advantages of the union, what brings visible value to their lives. It is not the most important thing in the life, but it is the best PR.

You cannot have a unified Europe, when half europeans are being treated like second rate citizens. Until we all have equal access to culture, entertainemnt, education, the same quality of food (really. the same nonsense is being said about food. We are being told that people in the worse countries actually prefer the worst tastes and health damaging food for higher prices. the same way, we are being told that we actually don't want the same entertainment and are ok with the higher price), there is no real EU, just a better opportunity to migrate from the worse countries to the better ones. I am grateful for that and plan to use this opportunity (and who cares that you can just close down the worse countries twenty years from now, as they'll be empty). But it's not what I had hoped the Union to be.

Also, how can it be so difficult? Are we living in the 70's and censorship? Nope. The only restrictions are the age based ones. Simple: every user has to fill in their age and it is their responsibility not to lie. Easy. Therefore an Irish teen will still be forbidden to watch the film with the nude sceen. If they lie about their age, it is not responsibility of the streaming provider.

[Cainntear]

Beyond the EU, geographical licensing is an absolute necessity, for exactly the opposite of what you claim.

There have been a number of cases in US courts in particular about the "grey import" of university textbooks from India or African countries. The issue here is that the books are sold massively cheaper in poorer countries, making access to education possible. If geographical licensing were to be abandoned, the market would need to adopt 1st-world-pricing globally, because there's more money to be made in selling to a small number of rich people than a large number of poor people.

If IP licensing was global, access would be reduced, not widened.

[Cavesa]

Beyond the EU, geographical licensing is an absolute necessity, for exactly the opposite of what you claim.

There have been a number of cases in US courts in particular about the "grey import" of university textbooks from India or African countries. The issue here is that the books are sold massively cheaper in poorer countries, making access to education possible. If geographical licensing were to be abandoned, the market would need to adopt 1st-world-pricing globally, because there's more money to be made in selling to a small number of rich people than a large number of poor people.

If IP licensing was global, access would be reduced, not widened.

That's why starting from reasonable smaller bits like the EU would be an ideal course of action. Seeing what it does.
Because within the EU, we've got the opposite. The same stuff is more expensive in the poorer countries. Geoblocking makes the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Actually, perhaps finding something in between the 1st world pricing and the "cheap" pricing would be benefitial. The 1st world education is not at accessible either.

Also, I have a real problem believing the international editions are priced differently in Prague and in Mumbai. It is always the same international edition of the university textbook, forbidden to be sold in the US. And it is sold for the american price, I usually check. Something looks wrong here. I think the globalised prices are already there, we are just being lied to about the price difference and meaning of the geoblocking. The other option? I am getting a cheaper edition of the book for a much higher price, perhaps I should find some indian eshop with international delivery.

And I am not usually offered an ebook even if I am a good sheep and buy it here. My back would be thankful for the ebooks.

[Cainntear]

You cannot have a unified Europe, when half europeans are being treated like second rate citizens. Until we all have equal access to culture, entertainemnt,

Ermmm… that was my point...? That undermining the translation industry would deny access to culture and entertainment to anyone who doesn't understand English...?

Also, how can it be so difficult? Are we living in the 70's and censorship? Nope. The only restrictions are the age based ones. Simple: every user has to fill in their age and it is their responsibility not to lie. Easy.

Age-based yet, but different in different countries. French classifiers are much less worried about nudity and sexual content than British ones, for example.