Is there a single example of wanderlust language learners actually being broadly successful?

[IchBinEinPoly]

Is there a single example of a wanderlust language learner achieving a very high level of proficiency in a majority of their target languages?

By wanderlust I am referring to those folks that flit from one language to another like bees from flower to flower, who decide to learn languages on a whim, and who learn many languages simultaneously, often without having established a solid base in any one of those languages.

Now, I understand that not everyone's goal is to learn a language to fluency. I am not talking about those people- they have different goals than I and I respect that and even admire that. However, there are people who think they can learn 4, 5, 6 or even more languages simultaneously, often having zero background in any of those languages, and still be successful in achieving a high level of proficiency. Is there any proof of that?

[jeff_lindqvist]

I'm not sure if those extremely impressive polyglots I've met have been victims of Wanderlust (depending on your definition, of course), but whatever the number of languages, one more or less has to spend time on several languages at a time. If nothing else, for maintaining them. By the way, nobody says the languages are (or ever have been) on the same level.

I think it's very uncommon for anyone to start multiple languages from scratch (and for that matter, spend exactly the same amount of time on them, and eventually stop studying every one of them at the same time) - is that what you had in mind?

[snöflinga]

No. Learning a language takes effort. End of story.
While there are some ways to make it easier, there is no getting away from doing the dull work of actually learning that grammar and hammering in those first few thousand words.

Of course, it depends on what your objective is.

If all you wanted to do, was get some admiration on the school yard, make nazi impressions or tell a Spanish girl she's pretty -- then no problem. Or if you want to upload a video where you say some nonsense in Japanese, while looking super-kawaii and getting lots of likes.... Or perhaps your objective was to be able to order food in French.

None of that should be very hard to achieve - and if that was the objective, they can be successful.

Some people they are very serious, but end up losing interest when it gets hard.
Others genuinely think they succeeded because they could order a coffee and buy a metro ticket while in Paris.

But if the objective is to be able to socialise in that language, or use the language for work, then the "wanderlust" person is chanceless.

You have to settle for 1-2 languages and be prepared to stick with it for many years.

Based on the title, I thought the thread was about people who study languages while travelling, which I had some thoughts on, lol.

[Via Diva]

You have to settle for 1-2 languages and be prepared to stick with it for many years.

I am not the example of this, but no, you don't have to. I just had to say that before the actual people who done, do and will do this come here.

[Käfer]

I'll echo that it all depends on objective. There's nothing wrong with only planning to learn a language to a basic level.

I tend to get wanderlust, and my list of languages I want to study is definitely longer than I'm likely to ever have time to learn to fluency, but I'm OK with that. Some languages I just want to learn enough to, as others mentioned, get a meal and take a train.

As far as simultaneity, I'll let you know. I'm currently working on German (my main foreign language that I actually want to learn to native level fluency), Mandarin (that I'd like to learn to an intermediate level), and Hindi (which I'm OK with only being able to have a basic conversation in).

But also, taking the long view, I've probably got another 50 years on this planet, so even if it takes 10 years to learn a language, I can learn 5 to fluency if I just stick with it.

[Delodephius]

Yesterday I came across a quote by a famous Serbian author Momo Kapor that read: "When other writers brag to me how they can write in several languages, I tell them to get jobs as receptionists. They're looking for people like them over there. In the last decades I have written volumes in one language and I still have problems expressing all my thoughts in just that one."

[iguanamon]

... there are people who think they can learn 4, 5, 6 or even more languages simultaneously, often having zero background in any of those languages, and still be successful in achieving a high level of proficiency. Is there any proof of that?

There's a difference in those who started seriously learning languages as an adult, outside a school environment and those who may have studied multiple languages while in school where discipline and help come from outside the student's own efforts. It is very difficult, when one has no language learning experience (defined as having achieved proficiency in a second language- B2 or higher) to juggle several languages all at a low level, less than intermediate level.

I was on the HTLAL forum for five years before we moved to this new site. In that time, I have yet to see anyone, as defined by the OP reach a high level in any of those languages. My thinking on this has evolved over the years. If that's what someone wants to do and they are enjoying it, great! They should keep on doing what brings them joy. There's something to be said for having an A1 level in a bunch of languages, or if not an A1 level, at least an understanding of some of the basics. It can be fun and useful for these people. If they are frustrated because they are not advancing to what they feel is a suitably high level in a language, and then begin to complain and ask the forum for help... well, the answer is obvious. It's not up to me to tell them that. They have to come to that on their own. I admit that I get frustrated when I follow someone's log, offer help and advice, and then see that person get tantalizingly close to that "breakthrough" moment where everything starts to come together, only to see them write in their log- "OK I'm going to add in X language now". Still, it's their decision to make.

Some people wouldn't even be studying languages at all if they had to only study one at a time to a high level and then move on. Whether that is more efficient or not, is debatable. There certainly are arguments to be made in favor of multiple-simultaneous study of languages. I have seen evidence of members who have done so, are doing so, and are successful at it, however, none of these people fit the OP's definition.

On some level, most of these learners, as defined by the OP, know that what they are doing won't lead to proficiency at a high level. So why do they do it? Hmmm... because it's fun for them. When you see the videos of the youtube polyglots speaking multiple languages and all the fun that many of us more experienced forum members are having with learning multiple languages simultaneously, it can be very seductive. Some beginners who join at the first of the year with the idea that- "This year I'm going to finally get serious about learning French" do that for a little while. Then they read the forum and check out other members logs, some of whom are also learning French. They then discover the other languages some of these members speak and learn and figure that they too can do that- as Alan Greenspan said- ïrrational exuberance" takes over. Of course, they are not taking into account the more experienced members' backgrounds. Many of us who are more experienced members study multiple languages simultaneously, successfully. Though those of us who do, most likely do not fit the definition of the OP of the monolingual, adult, beginner.

So, even if in my limited, five plus years of forum experience, I have yet to see someone in this situation (defined by the OP) proceed to proficiency in a language at a high level- that doesn't mean it isn't possible, or that someone hasn't done it, or will do it. It just means I haven't seen it yet. I do, however, believe the odds are stacked against a learner in this situation. There are exceptions to every rule or observation. I'm looking forward to seeing how many come forward as the exceptions to my observation.

[garyb]

I think there are two different points here: it's not necessarily about whether to study multiple languages at once, a subject that has already been discussed to death, but also about frequently changing plans. To me a "wanderlust learner" is somebody who keeps changing their plans and being distracted by new languages every few weeks or months; these plans might involve studying several at once, but not necessarily. I've met some people like that, and the result is what one would expect: a basic knowledge in various languages, and often interference between them and difficulty in remembering them all.

Whether people can succeed with a fixed long-term plan of studying many languages at once is a different question, and from what I've seen I'd say that it can work for already-experienced learners but never does for newbies.

Another pattern I see a lot (in real life more than on here) is people who have one "serious" foreign language that they learn to a good level, and then have a bunch of other wanderlust ones that they jump between and never get beyond a basic level in. Nothing against that of course, although they often tend to overstate their levels, especially if some of the basic languages are related to the advanced one.

[Cavesa]

While I agree, like everyone, with the basic idea that wanderlust on itself doesn't lead to high levels, I think this thread mixes several ideal and several styles of learning into one mix to condamn.

There have been examples of people learning simultaneously several languages from scratch and achieving good level in all of them. Of course, it took their time. They weren't fluent in all of them in two years, while they could have been fluent in one by then. However, this is not a race and I'd like to point out again the difference we often see here between american and european learners. In Europe, being a learner of five languages, spread between A1-B2, is extremely useful.

I wouldn't say Wanderlust learners normally want to achieve a high level in the language, unless they are beginner learners (who can actually fail at many points, wanderlust being just one of them). However, I'd say my wanderlust era, right when I discovered HTLAL, was a major success in fact. I learnt about langauges, actually about approximately 20 of them. I broadened my general education horizon and sorted all those languages between those I want to learn seriously (now or in several years) and those I actually don't want to learn. I think the wanderlust month or two actually saved me some failure and disappointment. I am glad I spent thowse two months wanderlusting

So, bottomline: experienced language learners do not expect high level in a wanderlust language usually. And beginners extremely often fail even at learning one language, so I don't actually think wanderlust changes that much about it.

[emk]

However, there are people who think they can learn 4, 5, 6 or even more languages simultaneously, often having zero background in any of those languages, and still be successful in achieving a high level of proficiency. Is there any proof of that?

There are a number of difficulties with this question, several of which have already been discussed. But I'd like to mention one more:

"[A]chieving a high level of proficiency" in 4, 5 or 6 languages is relatively rare for beginners, regardless of the study methods used. The FSI believes that it takes an English speaker 575 hours of class time and maybe 350 hours of study time to learn a closely-related language to a useful level. If we add those two numbers and multiply by six languages, we would get a bit over 5,500 hours, or a bit under 3 years of full-time work. Now, some people can obviously do it in less, and having previously learnt multiple languages helps. So whether people learn one language at a time, or multiple languages at once, only a tiny minority of them will reach the level you're asking about. Of course, you could always say, "Sure, 5,000 hours sounds great! Sign me up." Some people do that, including some people around here.

But beyond that, I agree with iguanamon. When I see somebody start a log, make it to a low beginner level (say, A1), and then add a bunch of wanderlust languages, I assume that their odds of reaching a high level in even one language aren't that great. There are probably exceptions to this—especially people who study multiple languages in school, or who have a pressing need to actually speak multiple languages—but I think many monolingual, independent adult learners would be well served in getting their first language to the level they want before adding more.

Once you've gotten one language to a decent level, then you know how the process works, and it will be easier the next time around. At that point, lots of people work on multiple languages successfully.