Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
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Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
HTLAL was designed for people who study languages on their own. There were some discussions involving teachers too, but it seems to me that many (most?) of the really long threads here are obsessed with teachers. So, which do you think is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
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Re: Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
I voted for "self study", but I think they are both things that you need to learn how to do if you want to reach a high level (in an effective manner). Probably over 90% of the time you spend learning a given language can be accomplished on your own, but if nothing else, teachers are invaluable for a) helping you get a good foundation, particularly in pronunciation, and b) ironing out minor points at an advanced level that you probably would not notice on your own.
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Re: Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
I also voted for self study, based on not only my current study situation, but also the fact that I did selfstudy even when I had teachers available (back in my school and study years). However I do think that it is practical (and maybe even motivational, depending on the person) to have a teacher in school when you learn your first second language (not counting those that bilingual kids pick up) - but those that do well in school in the language classes are those that also find a way to do something at home, apart from the obligatory exercises and if necessary countrary to the wise-guy's recommandations. And even back in my late elementary schools and 'gymnasium' afterwards I studied some languages wholly on my own, like Spanish and Italian. Today I'm as fluent in those two as in French, where I have been through a fullblown university study - the main difference is that I have read a lot more literature in French, and my pronunciation may also be slightly more polished, but it functions well enough in the other languages too.
By the way: the things I learned about French grammar have turned out to be relevant ond useful also for other languages- but I actually also studied French grammar partly as selfstudy even though I had classes, and when I wrote my final thesis I didn't consult my counselor, even though he had influenced my own ideas a lot.
Right now I don't use teachers or mentors at all, but I could see that a native AND knowledgeable teacher could be useful (if the person could cope with my idiosyncracies). While I studied French the university we suddenly got a native Romanian as a guest teacher, and he started some course with 2 hours each week and 5 pupils, including - as far as I remember - two of our own teachers. He left, but we got another for the next two years, and here I was the only pupil left. So the first thing I told ham was that I thought we should stick 100 % to Romanian, and that is the closest I ever had had to having my own personal teacher at my disposal. And of course if was fluent in Romanian after three years, but then I didn't use the language at all until the noughties, where I started to revive it up to a trip to Romania and Moldova. But my Romanian is still less fluent than my Spanish and Portuguese and Italian which I basically taught myself - simply because I have used those languages more.
If I could get some hours for free with a native teacher I would use them to polish my speech and (not least) listening and maybe also to pick up a few expressions and 'glue' formulas - but I would not let anyone dictate my study plan.
By the way: the things I learned about French grammar have turned out to be relevant ond useful also for other languages- but I actually also studied French grammar partly as selfstudy even though I had classes, and when I wrote my final thesis I didn't consult my counselor, even though he had influenced my own ideas a lot.
Right now I don't use teachers or mentors at all, but I could see that a native AND knowledgeable teacher could be useful (if the person could cope with my idiosyncracies). While I studied French the university we suddenly got a native Romanian as a guest teacher, and he started some course with 2 hours each week and 5 pupils, including - as far as I remember - two of our own teachers. He left, but we got another for the next two years, and here I was the only pupil left. So the first thing I told ham was that I thought we should stick 100 % to Romanian, and that is the closest I ever had had to having my own personal teacher at my disposal. And of course if was fluent in Romanian after three years, but then I didn't use the language at all until the noughties, where I started to revive it up to a trip to Romania and Moldova. But my Romanian is still less fluent than my Spanish and Portuguese and Italian which I basically taught myself - simply because I have used those languages more.
If I could get some hours for free with a native teacher I would use them to polish my speech and (not least) listening and maybe also to pick up a few expressions and 'glue' formulas - but I would not let anyone dictate my study plan.
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Re: Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
In teaching there is the term "the flipped class room" where students do the home work before the class so that is less time "teaching" in the class and more discussion. Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that the ideal for me is to do the most work self studying, and supplement with class room study when it seems useful.
I just finished an evening course, two evenings per week for two months in my target language (where I'm at the B1 level). I noticed:
I just finished an evening course, two evenings per week for two months in my target language (where I'm at the B1 level). I noticed:
- [+] We went through new things, that I never really got around to while self studying for many years.
[+] Some useful exercises I would not do myself, so it was an injection.
[–] Not so easy to see how much progress I made, but that would be the same with the self study, mainly because of the "intermediate plateau".
[–] Some in-class exercises seemed like a waste of time, but I was OK with it in the context.
[–] I had hoped that the class room studies would make me put more hours into my language learning for the period, and maybe it did, but I also noticed that I had less time to self study, as that I often was busy doing the home work, when I otherwise just would have been with my audio book.
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Re: Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
I have had the experience of learning from a teacher in school, from self study and from a personal tutor and I picked 'Teacher' because of my experience with a personal tutor.
However, I'd put 'self study' above learning from a teacher in school, not because of the teacher but how we learn in school hasn't struck me as effective for language learning. Though I realise mileage may vary and not every school in the world uses the same approach.
Only speaking for myself, I found having a teacher helps with:
- Motivation
- Accountability
- Corrections
- Explanations
- Tailored study/learning
- Providing exercises
- Pushing through walls
- Conversation
- And probably more that doesn't come to mind
And my tutor is a native Vietnamese speaker, so I get the benefit of cultural insights, an insight to some of the mentalities and an insight to how locals speak.
But I am not a great self-motivator and I have been going through a process of learning how I best learn a language and with Vietnamese, having somebody to help with its more challenging aspects has been super helpful, like with the tones and listening. And I know there's disputes over whether corrections are helpful but I think my tutor has a fair balance, because he knows when to correct me and when to let me see an idea through, because we can discuss corrections later if I've not corrected myself and he will play by ear whether it's just me making a stupid mistake and understand or whether it's made because I didn't understand something and thus needs an explanation.
However, I am trying to improve upon self-study, because it will make my life easier with my 3 target languages. But I have found things that are help and do work for me, just consistency remains my biggest challenge.
However, I'd put 'self study' above learning from a teacher in school, not because of the teacher but how we learn in school hasn't struck me as effective for language learning. Though I realise mileage may vary and not every school in the world uses the same approach.
Only speaking for myself, I found having a teacher helps with:
- Motivation
- Accountability
- Corrections
- Explanations
- Tailored study/learning
- Providing exercises
- Pushing through walls
- Conversation
- And probably more that doesn't come to mind
And my tutor is a native Vietnamese speaker, so I get the benefit of cultural insights, an insight to some of the mentalities and an insight to how locals speak.
But I am not a great self-motivator and I have been going through a process of learning how I best learn a language and with Vietnamese, having somebody to help with its more challenging aspects has been super helpful, like with the tones and listening. And I know there's disputes over whether corrections are helpful but I think my tutor has a fair balance, because he knows when to correct me and when to let me see an idea through, because we can discuss corrections later if I've not corrected myself and he will play by ear whether it's just me making a stupid mistake and understand or whether it's made because I didn't understand something and thus needs an explanation.
However, I am trying to improve upon self-study, because it will make my life easier with my 3 target languages. But I have found things that are help and do work for me, just consistency remains my biggest challenge.
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Re: Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
I chose "learning with a teacher." Of course, self-study should be a significant component of language learning. But I find teachers invaluable for corrections and speaking practice.
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Re: Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
I personally have decided that in future I will always vote for Nota, "None of the above". This includes all local political elections, as well as internet polls and customer surveys.
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Re: Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
rdearman wrote:I personally have decided that in future I will always vote for Nota, "None of the above". This includes all local political elections, as well as internet polls and customer surveys.
Heh, then a new poll:
How do you prefer to answer polls?
- By clicking 'none of the above' everytime
- By carefully considering my answer and choosing the best fit
- Wildcard, pick at random
- Purposefully giving a bad answer
- None of the above
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Re: Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
If you compare a class with self-study, the latter can be more effective, but also more demanding. Compare an hour of Pimsleur with an average classroom hour.
A class has advantages. A good structure, a teacher to help you and it’s a social setting, allowing for social activities. For people who does not want to create their own structure and find the relevant tools, as well as for those looking for a social environment, this will be superior in the long run.
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A private tutor is a very effective ”tool” when doing self-study. For example, you can pay the tutor to listen to you, interact with you and gently correct you while you are in the beginner speaking phase. You can’t ask strangers or your TL-friends to do this, without it being a favor.
A class has advantages. A good structure, a teacher to help you and it’s a social setting, allowing for social activities. For people who does not want to create their own structure and find the relevant tools, as well as for those looking for a social environment, this will be superior in the long run.
---
A private tutor is a very effective ”tool” when doing self-study. For example, you can pay the tutor to listen to you, interact with you and gently correct you while you are in the beginner speaking phase. You can’t ask strangers or your TL-friends to do this, without it being a favor.
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Re: Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?
rdearman wrote:I personally have decided that in future I will always vote for Nota, "None of the above". This includes all local political elections, as well as internet polls and customer surveys.
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