Which is more effective - self study, or learning with a teacher?

[jimmy]

I personally think , that both selections may include risks regarding the correctness of method.

1) if the teacher anyone wants to work with is non native or native and not sufficiently qualified , then that one may learn things wrongly. and unfortunately I have to express that it will most probably be very difficult to amend all those wrong things later (wrong pronunciation (high) , wrong usage(high) , wrong words & grammatical contexts/rules (low or not highly expected)

2) if you work by yourself (like me) , you may learn things wrongly. However , this method is more cheap and pleasure.
you do not have to miss the time and option. all you need to be intellectual and have classic necessities (convenient room for yourself , sufficient foods etc)

there is no need to mention a very important point: you will of course be free to select what to learn if you are autodidactic. This selection is wholly in your hand under the satisfactory of this condition.

....

[jimmy]

which is more effective?
of course & surely self study. I am self taught. now I can express that my followers could assume that I learnt even English by self study.

[Le Baron]

More effective for what? I don't think most threads on here are obsessed with teachers, but in fact with the polar opposite: self-study without a teacher. Which is routinely touted as the real key to language mastery (but which I don't think it is in every instance). Teachers are routinely rubbished on here by autodidact geniuses.

It seems to me the camps at either extreme fail to make judicious use of these two in combination when necessary. As such, I fall entirely into line with språker's post.

The complainers who join a class and then come out in a huff after 6 weeks saying they got nothing and it was all useless baffle me greatly. Did they really sit there for 6 weeks and say nothing about this? Never looked at or discussed the proposed course curriculum and if would suit them? Never discussed with the teacher that they are doing several hours worth of listening from sources x, y and z alongside this course? Never asked questions or deliberately generated discussion? Why not? If someone is parading about calling themselves an 'advanced language learner' and then sits through classes or one-to-one sessions not taking control... well.

I don't know that I've ever heard a person taking mainly classes rubbishing self-study in quite the same way. As Sae notes, or perhaps implies, self-study does not provide instant motivation, or a plan (especially when the user is determined not to follow a course, but put together their own plan), or accurate corrections, or explanations beyond whatever the materials have, in a tailored way as the teacher notices what is happening.

Self-study is good, but it is the heavy-lifting aspect. You know, a weight-lifting instructor teaches you technique, gives advice, he doesn't do the lifts for you. The student's job in language learning is to do the actual hard graft to 'become one' with the TL, the teacher's job is to be a guide. In self-study the student assumes the teacher's job (with book guidance or experience) as well as his own. That student may be inexperienced and not capable or more experienced and better able. That said I don't care how experienced the person is, there are always pitfalls you cannot see in unknown territory and having a guide who simply knows more than you, someone to whom you can ask questions, is gold.

The most effective is to get the best, most correct information in the most timely fashion.

[Cainntear]

I personally have decided that in future I will always vote for Nota,

So if I was to start a thread on people's favourite foreign words for "note", you'd pick the Spanish one...?

[leosmith]

teachers are invaluable for a) helping you get a good foundation, particularly in pronunciation

Interesting - I find teachers really bad at teaching pronunciation. Are you considering youtube videos and audio resources that teach pronunciation to be "teachers" perhaps?

[Le Baron]

Interesting - I find teachers really bad at teaching pronunciation. Are you considering youtube videos and audio resources that teach pronunciation to be "teachers" perhaps?

Surely someone teaching something, or attempting to teach it, is being a teacher? I would trust the pronunciation advice of a native speaker over some amateur hack who learned the IPA.

[tastyonions]

Native speakers aren't necessarily conscious of the physical details of how they pronounce something, or how to fix the pronunciation of someone who has problems doing it right. Of course, you'd hope a language teacher has gotten such training at some point, but that's not always the case. "Language teacher" is a broad category where the bar for entry can be pretty darn low.

[Le Baron]

Native speakers aren't necessarily conscious of the physical details of how they pronounce something, or how to fix the pronunciation of someone who has problems doing it right. Of course, you'd hope a language teacher has gotten such training at some point, but that's not always the case.

Native speakers can hear that you aren't pronouncing something correctly. Of course it doesn't mean any person will be an effective teacher, but if they are a teacher they will be a best bet for getting good pronunciation advice.

On the other hand I've always asked natives for pronunciation advice and it is generally useful - and this is more an interplay between autodidactical approach and being 'taught'. Not everyone's pronunciation is identical and people also take slightly different paths to the same end, but the end goal is what you seek. The question: does this sound right? Put to as many people as possible is a useful approach. Many people tend to answer in the same way: 'round your lips more', 'push your jaw a bit more forward' etc and offering useful layman's advice. I like to take it.

[rdearman]

One of the blessings of my French language exchange partner who I've been speaking to for many years, is that she is a speech therapist, so she really does know how to help me with my pronunciation.

[leosmith]

Surely someone teaching something, or attempting to teach it, is being a teacher?

I had "live" in mind for teachers when I created the poll; I consider videos, audio programs, books, etc. to be resources even though it can be said that they "teach". I could see my interpretation being controversial though.

Many people tend to answer in the same way: 'round your lips more', 'push your jaw a bit more forward' etc and offering useful layman's advice. I like to take it.

I generally find this type of advice to be ineffective. It may be because most people that give it are laymen; I'm sure a speech therapist would be different story, but I've never worked with one. I prefer to listen and repeat. Simple, but effective. If I get stuck on something, I might check out some resources. Asking natives is almost always a waste of time ime.