Polyglot conference: the mind boggles...!

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Polyglot conference: the mind boggles...!

Postby Cainntear » Sun May 14, 2023 3:56 pm

Just watched a live video presented by Richard Simcott in which he talks about the code of conduct with a massive focus on this is not a pick-up event-type stuff. Can't help but wonder if there's some backstory to this...!
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Re: Polyglot conference: the mind boggles...!

Postby rdearman » Sun May 14, 2023 4:19 pm

Cainntear wrote:this is not a pick-up event-type

Glad I never went then.
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Re: Polyglot conference: the mind boggles...!

Postby tastyonions » Sun May 14, 2023 4:36 pm

Cainntear wrote:Just watched a live video presented by Richard Simcott in which he talks about the code of conduct with a massive focus on this is not a pick-up event-type stuff. Can't help but wonder if there's some backstory to this...!

There is indeed:

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Re: Polyglot conference: the mind boggles...!

Postby Cainntear » Sun May 14, 2023 9:04 pm

tastyonions wrote:
Cainntear wrote:Just watched a live video presented by Richard Simcott in which he talks about the code of conduct with a massive focus on this is not a pick-up event-type stuff. Can't help but wonder if there's some backstory to this...!

There is indeed:


Eep.

Unfortunately, I see a certain level of naïvety there. For one thing, proper conferences aren't free of drunken almost-fights or people out on the pull.
Yes, things tend to go a bit differently, but this is (dare I say it) a bit of a "pretend conference" and not really that "professional" as far as I can see: polyglottery is not exaclty a profession, is it?

Lots of people end up learning languages because they're misfits and outcasts. And note that I'm not talking about *other* people -- I myself started learning languages because I wanted to learn how to talk to people. I deliberately didn't invest myself in too much of "finding an identity", because I knew that was inviting disaster. And I feel I was proven right, because I've been in classrooms with people who invested far too much in an identity -- particularly with minority languages. I don't do polyglot conferences because there is no clear professional activity to motivate me, and I therefore expect them to be a collection of misfits looking desperately for people who are somehow like them. Going to a place with the specific goal of fitting in cos you're an outsider in your own world... that's dangerous. If you see someone and fixate on them being "like you are" then you can in the end become a pest.
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Re: Polyglot conference: the mind boggles...!

Postby Sae » Sun May 14, 2023 11:20 pm

I suppose it is good to at least draw awareness to and take it seriously especially if it's against their T&C's too. I know on the one side you might have your socially awkward people but on that other, it's not really the sort of thing people should feel uncomfortable at and should be able to let loose over what they're there for without worrying about ulterior motives and not really the sort of thing designed for pick ups.

But I'm sure socially awkward people trying to fit in, I think with any 'geek' thing, that's normal and fine. I think people are more okay with regular pests than sex pests. Chances are, your regular pest is just enthusiastic and interested in the same thing you're interested in.
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Re: Polyglot conference: the mind boggles...!

Postby Gaoling97 » Mon May 15, 2023 3:47 am

Does anybody know what CEO Elysse is referring to in that video?
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Re: Polyglot conference: the mind boggles...!

Postby Iversen » Mon May 15, 2023 6:41 am

I didn't participate in Cholula, but I have participated in several others (Budapest, Reykjavík, Novi Sad, Thessaloniki), and I have also participated in five-and-a-half gathering so I should have a bit of first hands experience with such events. I have actually also participated in some Esperanto congresses, which of course is another kind of event since they per definition aren't polyglot. The main difference for me has been the number of participants and the number of lectures. And my main reasons for participating has always been to meet other people with a keen interest in languages (including some that knew more languages and more exotic languages than me), but in practice I ended up listening to lectures most of the time - and trying to avoid speaking English. Whether there was some hanky-panky or drunken brawls going on between other participants outside the venue was not my business, but I didn't witness anything of it inside it - not ONCE. So if Cholula was different I can't say, but I'm seriously contemplating joining the next polyglot congress, although this time I'll not be presenting any lecture myself - I have stopped doing that. And it will not be some sensationalist video or sinister stories from a certain event that will influence my decision to go or not. You could just as well warn people from visiting a whole city because of some incident in the past.
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Re: Polyglot conference: the mind boggles...!

Postby Cainntear » Mon May 15, 2023 7:19 am

Sae wrote:it's not really the sort of thing people should feel uncomfortable at and should be able to let loose

Letting loose is the problem -- that's why I think Elysse's talk about it being supposed to be a "professional" event is pretty naïve. Professionals often let loose, and professionals are humans, warts and all.
over what they're there for

What are they there for? As I say, I can't see any goal other than "meeting people like me".
without worrying about ulterior motives

But there are always people at these things with ulterior motives. Like CEOs of language learning apps trying to hawk their wares to a captive audience. And language YouTubers trying to build their brand reach.
and not really the sort of thing designed for pick ups.

Conferences may not be designed for pick ups, but they happen. I was chatted up by someone who was clearly after something brief. I turned her down, and the next day I ended up talking to someone who I started a relationship with. It's part and parcel of letting loose. That's why I used the word naïvety -- she's showing an idealised view of something that simply doesn't match reality.
But I'm sure socially awkward people trying to fit in, I think with any 'geek' thing, that's normal and fine. I think people are more okay with regular pests than sex pests.

Oh, absolutely.
Chances are, your regular pest is just enthusiastic and interested in the same thing you're interested in.

Well, no. The regular pest is probably of the opinion that they're interested in the same thing that you are, but they actually aren't. When you go to extremes, you get "groups" like Flat Earthers whose core belief systems are entirely at odds with each other in very fundamental ways, but because they're outsiders, some of them will ignore those differences in order to feel part of something bigger than themselves. But if someone repeatedly says something you believe is wrong, you might well realise they're not like you, and they might not.

Gaoling97 wrote:Does anybody know what CEO Elysse is referring to in that video?

Clearly Richard Simcott does, as he makes literally no reference to the incident in question, and may involve a legal threat.

Again, I think this shows some naïvety on Elysse's part -- on the one hand she made the right call to not name anyone, but on the other, she did make some questionable calls that potentially lead to speculation and feed the rumour mill. If he is the "CEO of a very well-known language app"... well how many language apps are there anyway? The world runs on web services that have their own apps as well, and I imagine that she's talking about one of them, but she specifically didn't say that. Now imagine that you're the CEO of a company that's main product is an actual app and you weren't even at the conference -- you're now assumed guilty by association. She also then makes a rough estimate of his age which may be well off, but will probably start people googling CEO ages. The rumour mill is approaching full speed.
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Re: Polyglot conference: the mind boggles...!

Postby Cainntear » Mon May 15, 2023 7:47 am

Iversen wrote:IAnd it will not be some sensationalist video or sinister stories from a certain event that will influence my decision to go or not. You could just as well warn people from visiting a whole city because of some incident in the past.

Absolutelly this.

But to clarify further, for those of you who aren't considering this sensationalist...

This is human nature it happens everywhere. That it seemed extreme to Elysse is not something I would question -- her skin sensitivity kind of suggests to me that she did find talking about it stressful. I have a mild nickel sensitivity myself, and it does get a bit worse when I'm stressed.

BUT...

Her criticism focuses on it not being "professional" behaviour, but is calling a post something clickybaity like "What REALLY happened at the Polyglot Conference.." any more professional?

She is someone who makes her living through YouTube ad revenue and affiliate sponsorships, as well as through selling presumably fairly generic resource lists off the power of herself as an individual.

She could have talked about human behaviour and human flaws, but she doesn't really have enough life experience to realise that it's pretty mundane stuff. I mean, the woman chatting me up at the conference I went to for English teachers was pretty persistent and was clearly offended by me turning her down (even stating that I had a job interview the next day and needed to get the train home to turn up in a suit the next day wasn't enough to stop her repeatedly inviting me to events that evening), and there was a 50-something guy at a works Christmas night out who grabbed me by the throat when I was about 30 and called me the "worst f***ing traitor I've ever met" because of a minor political disagreement between us. Nobody told him to go home, so I went home instead. I was annoyed about that, but hey -- human flaws. He'd been working on that team longer than me.
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Re: Polyglot conference: the mind boggles...!

Postby Sae » Mon May 15, 2023 8:57 am

Cainntear wrote:
Sae wrote:it's not really the sort of thing people should feel uncomfortable at and should be able to let loose

Letting loose is the problem -- that's why I think Elysse's talk about it being supposed to be a "professional" event is pretty naïve. Professionals often let loose, and professionals are humans, warts and all.
over what they're there for

What are they there for? As I say, I can't see any goal other than "meeting people like me".
without worrying about ulterior motives

But there are always people at these things with ulterior motives. Like CEOs of language learning apps trying to hawk their wares to a captive audience. And language YouTubers trying to build their brand reach.
and not really the sort of thing designed for pick ups.

Conferences may not be designed for pick ups, but they happen. I was chatted up by someone who was clearly after something brief. I turned her down, and the next day I ended up talking to someone who I started a relationship with. It's part and parcel of letting loose. That's why I used the word naïvety -- she's showing an idealised view of something that simply doesn't match reality.
But I'm sure socially awkward people trying to fit in, I think with any 'geek' thing, that's normal and fine. I think people are more okay with regular pests than sex pests.

Oh, absolutely.
Chances are, your regular pest is just enthusiastic and interested in the same thing you're interested in.

Well, no. The regular pest is probably of the opinion that they're interested in the same thing that you are, but they actually aren't. When you go to extremes, you get "groups" like Flat Earthers whose core belief systems are entirely at odds with each other in very fundamental ways, but because they're outsiders, some of them will ignore those differences in order to feel part of something bigger than themselves. But if someone repeatedly says something you believe is wrong, you might well realise they're not like you, and they might not.


What I got from the two videos was less people connecting over shared interests and hooking up but more a guy hitting on women who did not want to be hit on and not taking 'no' for an answer, which does fit within sexual harassment, even if it's not a 'professional' setting, it wasn't one where dating was a premise either and 'no' means 'no'. The former is more like how two friends of mine met, who're now married, as they met at a convention & sparked, but the latter are still frowned upon at things like conventions and sounds like against the conduct of that conference.

As I feel like if the former, it wouldn't call for an organiser to emphasise a rule they have for conduct or for a woman to say she felt harassed even after communicating she was uncomfortable, getting further advances and finding it happened to other women too.

I feel, yes, maybe naivity on it being a 'professional' environment. I've never been (plus I don't think I am good enough to call myself a polyglot), but from the sounds of it, it's more for ethusiasts, hence 'polyglot', than for professionals, but I will give some benefit of the doubt that 'conference' denotes a more formal function, whereas it sounds more like a convention to me. Though I still wouldn't expect harassment in either case.

And from the sounds of it, she's not calling out the organisers or discouraging people going to the event and sounds like she had a great time, made friends and intends to return. It sounds more like calling out bad behaviour and the organisers trying to emphasise it's inappropriate and her suggesting how their rules of conduct could be more visisble, but ultimately something like sexual harassment should just be common sense...but at least more visibility accounts for where it isn't.


However, in fairness, I am taking it at impressions, the organiser's PSA and taking her at her word & experience and it sounds like you're coming from your own experience at these sorts of things and taking it less at face value in that it might not be as bad as presented. But if dude was harassing her and other women trying to pick them up when they're not wanting it, then obviously, I don't think that's welcome anywhere.
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