How will people In the German-speaking world respond if I only roll the 'r' with my tongue?

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How will people In the German-speaking world respond if I only roll the 'r' with my tongue?

Postby Khayyam » Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:17 am

I still find it annoying to try to make the German 'r' in the back of my throat, even after a fair bit of practice, and would rather just roll it with my tongue like Till Lindemann or (the comparison can't be avoided) Hitler. Would people have a negative reaction, do you think--whether because they thought I was some kind of Hitler-lover, or because they just thought it sounded affected and obnoxious?

Or maybe I should just ask, what do you Austrian/Swiss/German people here think about this, personally?

Are there any German dialects where the pure rolling 'r', with no furball-in-throat sound, is normal?
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Re: How will people In the German-speaking world respond if I only roll the 'r' with my tongue?

Postby tastyonions » Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:18 am

Plenty of Germanophones use an alveolar trill and are perfectly comprehensible to other Germanophones. Besides there are surely other features of your accent and grammar that will tag you as foreign, so I doubt people will care much.

Alveolar R coding as “Hitler” is not a Germanosphere thing.
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Re: How will people In the German-speaking world respond if I only roll the 'r' with my tongue?

Postby Khayyam » Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:32 am

Cool, and thanks for teaching me what an alveolar trill is. :)
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Re: How will people In the German-speaking world respond if I only roll the 'r' with my tongue?

Postby Sae » Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:19 pm

If you did run into somebody who thought "dude you like Hitler?" You can go "no, I just like Rammstein".
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Re: How will people In the German-speaking world respond if I only roll the 'r' with my tongue?

Postby tiia » Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:33 pm

Khayyam wrote:Are there any German dialects where the pure rolling 'r', with no furball-in-throat sound, is normal?

East Franconian German (mostly just called Fränkisch) is the only German dialect with an alveloar r. If someone uses this, it is a very clear sign, where they come from. It is something one immediately notices.
It would be very odd for a learner to use it that way, as it is actually quite strong.

However, I think it is quite different from the mentioned examples here, because there the whole way of speaking is exaggarated so much, that it would be completely unnatural. Rammstein uses their r in a stylistic way. If you listen closely, you will notice that in some songs they pronunce most r's even in the "normal" way. And now take a comparison to how they actually speak in an interview... (some random interview link)
I would advise you to find for example other music in German, that sounds more natural, so that you actually get the sound right. Modern German spoken on the streets is way softer.
It needs to be noted that the German r is often hardly pronunced at all/ as an "r". In many cases it is more an a or a schwa-sound (?) than an actual r. If in the remaining cases you do a soft r of whatever kind, I don't mind.
Just don't exaggarate it, because then it becomes hard and weird.
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Re: How will people In the German-speaking world respond if I only roll the 'r' with my tongue?

Postby daegga » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:15 pm

Prescriptive standard pronunciation (Ausspracheduden) equally recognizes alveolar trill, uvular trill and uvular fricative as correct and alveolar tap/flap as dialectal.
Bühnendeutsch preferred the alveolar trill: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BChnendeutsch
Practically, you are more likely to hear an uvular (or even velar) approximant (younger people) or alveolar tap (old people). But this depends a bit on the region.
Also many immigrants (also later generations) tend to use an alveolar variant.

Just don't use an alveolar approximant ('English R') and you are fine.
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Re: How will people In the German-speaking world respond if I only roll the 'r' with my tongue?

Postby Le Baron » Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:56 pm

In general your tongue is the only thing with which you can roll the 'r'. Or make the 'r' at all.
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Re: How will people In the German-speaking world respond if I only roll the 'r' with my tongue?

Postby tastyonions » Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:00 pm

Le Baron wrote:In general your tongue is the only thing with which you can roll the 'r'. Or make the 'r' at all.

“How will German speakers respond if I use a bilabial trill in place of the standard R?” ;)
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Re: How will people In the German-speaking world respond if I only roll the 'r' with my tongue?

Postby Le Baron » Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:11 pm

tastyonions wrote:
Le Baron wrote:In general your tongue is the only thing with which you can roll the 'r'. Or make the 'r' at all.

“How will German speakers respond if I use a bilabial trill in place of the standard R?” ;)

They should (if they're on the ball) pose two questions:

1. How is something bilabial performed (and does it require a bifurcated tongue?)
2. What is the general name for the sound made with this 'ere bilabial trill?

If they don't, they can suffer the consequences.
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Re: How will people In the German-speaking world respond if I only roll the 'r' with my tongue?

Postby språker » Fri Apr 28, 2023 2:56 pm

Sweden generally has a geographic divider where dialects south of the border speak with a 'throat' R and people north the border speak with a 'thrilled' R, which is also considered the "standard pronunciation". Most people do the thrilled version when singing though, so I would assume that (at least) people from the south would be in command of them both.

Teaching Swedish in Lithuania, my pupils all adopted the 'standard' thrilled version of R, and not my south-Swedish throat R. That is also logical, given that thrilled R is the one used in Lithuanian.

One of the pupils did however start to "copy" my throat R:s. So I told her that it wasn't absolutely necessary to adopt my exact dialect (but it was a little flattering). She answered that she had a hard time to learn the thrilled R when she was little, and it was a relief for her to use the throat version in Swedish.

I fully understand that it can feel hard to copy some sounds in foreign languages. Not that it is impossible, but that it takes a lot of effort, and that one feels a bit silly doing so sometimes as well. I have my list of things that I would like to improve, but I have some internal resistance.
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