Irena wrote:rdearman wrote:Actually, I don't think anyone is trying to sell a method. I thing Cainntear is just telling you about a method which works for him, and a number of other people. I get the feeling that you two are "reading past each other" and not really paying attention to what the other person is saying. You're both making good points, but you are arguing, not debating.
And here, I must disagree. Here's a clear summary of his position.
Cainntear wrote:I say that the optimal way for everyone is more similar than everyone says.
Instead, the differences between learners are mostly in how well we cope with *suboptimal* teaching.
This implies that if I use one method, and you use a very different one, then at least one of us is wrong. And that's where my disagreement with him lies.
Nota bene: "the optimal way for everyone is
more similar than everyone says."
More similar, not "absolutely identical".
I am in favour of moving towards better teaching and learning -- I simply cannot abide people saying "what we do is fine -- the problem is the learners".
In my life I have been "proof" that various teaching methods work... because I do not follow the method. Credit for my success is taken by a method that I'm not even really using.
But again, I don't have any issues at all with you using MT (or whatever else works for you). As long as you don't attempt to force feed it to me.
I'm not force-feeding it to you. If nothing else, Michel Thomas didn't speak Serbian anyway so is likely to be less useful to you.
I mention Thomas here because I see him as an example of teaching
better being useful to
everyone. You have not discussed his teaching methods, but have rejected my evidence time and again.
Me: I have watched grown women cry because they're trying hard.
You: People cry for lots of reasons -- doesn't mean they're trying hard.
Me: I've met these people personally and I can assure you they're genuinely trying.
You: People cry for lots of reasons -- doesn't mean they're trying hard.
Me: Michel Thomas teaches in a way that works better for everyone.
You: Michel Thomas is just an introduction.
Me: Yes, but it's a good introduction because people learn to make accurate sentences with sophisticated grammar.
You: He has a bad accent.
Me: Yes, I never said he was perfect, but I said he's the best introduction to a language I've ever personally experienced.
You: I watched some stuff from his in a language I already speak and I don't like it.