Could you be C1/C2 and still be a practical "beginner" in the language?

[FRAnglais1919]

There was a good question about this on here. I argue that you may know the language well (i.e. its grammar/vocabulary/pronunciation) without being able to use it effectively in an immediate, on-the-fly setting where you must interact with native speakers. I may be wrong though–which would mean this person really isn't C1/C2 material and still has work to do.

There's a difference between passing a language exam and getting by with that language in a foreign country. Even if you've mastered the grammar rules and the most frequent words in my target language. But on more thought, I would struggle to hold a casual conversation with French natives, which is sort of embarrassing for how much I know. Like "What are you up to this weekend? How are you getting along with [person]? How's work and stuff? Why'd you do X and not Y?" You should never answer the DALF way, which is something like "First and foremost, I will address the issue more broadly, before analyzing multiple alternatives. Finally, I will explain their strong and weak points, as well

Just some thoughts. Wonder what you all think!

[tastyonions]

What kind of resources could someone use to get up to C1 level and yet not encounter plenty of instances of ordinary day to day conversation? Are we talking about someone who just memorizes all the words in a dictionary and drills all the example sentences from a grammar book? Even then most modern grammars will have plenty of examples of up to date everyday usage.

[Le Baron]

I'm also struggling with this scenario. How does someone gain the label 'C1/C2' without knowing how to use the language?

If I relax and imagine it just means: 'I've not had enough conversation practise..' Then I think I know what the answer is: more conversation practise!

[Irena]

Hmm... If you are consistently unable to hold a casual conversation, then you're not at C1/C2 level, at least not for speaking/listening. That said, it's certainly possible to struggle in some situations. For instance, if a native speaker uses a lot of non-standard language (such as regionalisms or slang) or perhaps has some sort of speech defect, then yes, you may struggle to understand even at high levels. As for speaking, well, languages do occasionally malfunction: you want to say something, and you do know how to say that something, but for some reason, it doesn't come out right (or at all). This happens and can be very frustrating. However, I find that past C1, my languages don't malfunction in a very bad way. Sure, my performance still varies from one occasion to another, but it never drops so low that a non-jerk native might think that I don't speak the language at all, or am still very much a beginner in it. At something like B1, this sort of thing happens all the time and can be quite demoralizing.

For what it's worth, though, I do think it's possible to pass DALF C1 and still struggle with casual conversation. Those French exams are unusual in that you only need to get 50% overall and 20% in each of the four parts in order to pass. So, someone with strong reading/writing skills, and much weaker (i.e. clearly sub-C1) speaking/listening skills might still pass. But that's a feature of that particular exam, and I think it's unfortunate (i.e. it erodes the value of the certificate).

[Irena]

What kind of resources could someone use to get up to C1 level and yet not encounter plenty of instances of ordinary day to day conversation?

Lots of non-contemporary literature?

[tastyonions]

Yeah but you’d still need some kind of learning resources to bring you up to the level where you’d be dining on Molière, Hugo, and Flaubert. Unless our hypothetical learner really just sits down at A0 and brute forces French literature classics with a dictionary and a grammar cheat sheet. Now that would be a terrifying level of commitment if someone were to pull that off.

[Irena]

Yeah but you’d still need some kind of learning resources to bring you up to the level where you’d be dining on Molière, Hugo, and Flaubert. Unless our hypothetical learner really just sits down at A0 and brute forces French literature classics with a dictionary and a grammar cheat sheet. Now that would be a terrifying level of commitment if someone were to pull that off.

You can be familiar with every day language without being comfortable with it. Suppose you went through some introductory textbook with all the grammar and everyday stuff, and then you moved on to Molière, Hugo, and Flaubert. The grammar got reinforced, but all the casual chit-chat didn't. You still sorta remember it, but don't quite have it at the tip of your tongue, and so casual conversation is a struggle. But then I don't think you're C1/C2 for speaking/listening, though you might well be for reading (and perhaps also writing).

[Le Baron]

It seems to be fairly common for quite a lot of people learning on their own to have a marked discrepancy between the skills. With some very developed whilst others have almost no development. So that if one were to go to Dialang and do e.g. a reading or listening test one could be rated B2 or C1 and then fix on this as an overall reflection. Whilst doing a speaking test could rate you A1/A2 despite having read Les Misérables or the entire Journey To The West in Chinese..

[jimmy]

formally & technically :I think it is impossible.
because almost all of formal associations & locations require worldwide acceptable exam results. And these exams generally try to measure 4 skills , this eventually switches to technical meaning and that results to the impossibility.

but if you divide the exam to 4 skills and would like to say : "can one be C1/C2 at one and still be A1/A2 at another skill ?" then while it is theoretically makes us give answer as "yes" , I am not sure.
(I was fearing for this for instance for chines, so sopped to work until I find a chance to go to china)

The case you describe in the title is presumably the thing which I will never want it.
all in all it seems possible. if it was not, any then why illiterate people know speaking their native language ??

[german2k01]

Maybe they need to man up, fix their anxiety issues and speak. Hard to believe. By the time they reach the C2 level, they would have exposed themselves to a massive amount of language. Can not believe they can not ask such simple questions. Watch a few movies; there they are on their way. Hard to believe that they did not watch a few movies on their way to achieving C2 level.