The age limit for studying....

[Iversen]

Hangul is indeed dead easy to learn. Each sign is made up of typically three signs that function as letters, so the combo corresponds to a syllable. However the system was created for Korean, and you would probably have to reinvent it from scratch to adapt it to other languages with other sounds. Learning the language however ... no, not for me. One of the things I have picked up from Western learners is that the Koreans apparently have problems understanding foreigners with an accent, and I can't see how I could avoid having one.

As for Georgian (Kartuli): I have visited the country twice and learned the alphabet for the first trip - and then I forgot it. Then I relearnt it recently using a trick: if you stuff a Georgian text into Google Translate it produces a transcription into Latin letters - and luckily the lettershapes match those I found somewhere on the internet (I also found another font somewhere where the shapes are slightly different). Using this trick I could produce 'bi-scriptural' texts with an added translation, and the only problem was that some letters resemble each others (ვ კ პ = v k' p'), and I could see problems if a text uses another font than the one I have studied. Luckily big and small letters are the same (except for the size, of course ). Actually there are two other Georgian alphabets, but it seems that they only are used in old inscriptions in churches, and I doubt that even native Georgians can read them. As for the language itself - well, I have bought and read a grammar, and the verbal system seems to be a nightmare. I might be interested in learning at least to read it, but for the moment I haven't got time to add a whole new language family.

Greek - well the letters are used for physics (like π for pi, which is somewhere around 3.14 or 22/7, or α and β for different kinds of radioactivity), but you never use more than one at a time. I bought a Langenscheidt dictionary (slightly outdated Greek - German) plus a Mystakidis textbook (in Swedish) near the end of my French study, but I only did the first couple of lessons before I dropped all language learning abruptly in 1981. By then I had realized that a combo of French and literature would condemn me to a breadless existence as an errant language teacher, and instead I took an economical exam called HD (minus the final dissertation) and ended up working with informatics for 29 years on the basis of a two-week computer course. Somewhere near the end of the noughties I took up Greek again using the old books, but soon found some newer dictionaries and an excellent grammar from Routledge, and then I also learnt to write and read fast. Actually my goodnight book yesterday was a Ellenophone guide to Rhodos, and to test my reading speed I have just read one pictureless page aloud - it took 10 minutes, left me dead tired and I had to drop trying to understand the exact meaning of the words I spoke. Then I did the same thing silently - it took max. 2 minutes, and I understood almost the whole caboodle. So I'd better shut up when I read - reading aloud is a seriously bad idea. Reading silently, a book with 150 pages and no pictures could be done in something like 4-5 hours (probably less once the train rolls). OK, in Danish or English I read faster, but I would still say that it's OK for an old man. So the claim that you can't learn to read a new alphabet fluently after the tender age of 18 is still false - at least with those I have tried.

Russian is a similar story: I learnt the letters in december 1974 when I visited Moscow and Leningrad (!) with a group of teachers and students from the institute for comparative and modern literature at our university, none of whom spoke a word of the local language - but most of them were different shades of red (they read Russian literature in German translations from the late DDR). I was the only one in the group who took pains to learn the Cyrillic alphabet, so I was the only one who could travel around alone on the metro without our guide - and I spent most of my time visiting museums instead of party comrades or local apparatchiks. Then near the end of my French studies I bought a couple of second hand grammars, and I must have bought a textbook too (now lost) because I did manage to learn the word "преподавательница" (female teacher) - but then I stopped learning languages until around 2010, where I decided to try my luck with Russian again. However I soon found out that the Cyrillic letters interferred with my Greek alphabet so it was an on and off affair for some years, but within the last 10 years I have learned a fair bit of Russian and added Serbian (Cyrillic only), Bulgarian and Ukrainian (in that order), so now I'm quite comfortable with the different versions of Cyrillic. That being said: I have only cared to learn the printed letters - the handwriting would only be relevant on produce markets, and I prefer supermarkets. I can write equally fast in Greek and Cyrillic and Danish now (if my Danish scribblings have to be readable at least to myself, that is), but I read more slowly in Cyrillic than I do in Greek (not to speak of languages that use Latin letters) - mostly because I know the Germanic and Romance languages (and even Greek) better.

I have had a peek at the writing systems in South Asia, and those that have roots back to Sanskrit have mostly a lot of signs because they seem to be syllabic, and the languages there are tonal. So far I don't try to learn any of them - and definitely not Chinese or Japanese (even though you probably already now can get a transcriber-whizz gadget that saves you years of study time). But I like the letter shapes, and in Myanmar I even bought a T-shirt with the local alphabet.

Arabic is out because they allegedly skip their unstressed vowels down there. You would have to learn the spoken language (or a variant of it) first and THEN the writing system, and that order is not the one I favour.

F4322b02_the_Burmese_alphabet.jpg

[anitarrc]

When I studied electronics at an open university... Electronics is actually specialized maths..

now I know who to ask all those questions I have about karnaugh maps and boolean logic gates ...

go on

[lichtrausch]

Learning the language however ... no, not for me. One of the things I have picked up from Western learners is that the Koreans apparently have problems understanding foreigners with an accent, and I can't see how I could avoid having one.

I think it's rather that Korean pronunciation can be quite tricky and so a lot of learners end up with dodgy pronunciation, not just a moderate accent. I don't have any talent in pronunciation (Mandarin tones tormented me for years), and yet Koreans usually understand me fine unless I botch the grammar or word choice.

[mattmo]

I don't believe that there is a age limit for studying anything really, if you enjoy studying something such as languages I say go ahead and enjoy it! Optimal progress even at a younger age isn't really a thing perfectionism isn't either. I say just do what you enjoy doing!

[Le Baron]

Skipping back to something Lisa wrote, and which Iversen then responded to, I think there may be something in the view that in general it simply gets much harder to have what I'd call 'facility', because it is a good umbrella word, in sounds and scripts and responsive use. I notice now that because I did engage with Chinese characters as a teenager - whether or not I successfully learned them (I didn't ) - they don't feel totally alien to me, whereas despite some effort with and exposure to other non-Latin scripts around age 30 those remain unintelligible to me. With Russian script I was about 13 or 14 when I started learning it and now when I see it there's no major barrier moving from Latin script to that. It's only ever vocabulary holes or pronunciation doubts.

Being neither a linguist nor a neuroscientist the reasons and realities and possibilities are mostly conjecture for me. It does seem to me that as we age and over time we streamline ways of thinking and doing*. Cutting away what seems inessential and working upon accumulated and refined patterns. Learning anything new, not just languages, is a challenge to this. Yet languages cover large areas of functionality; visually recognising, aurally recognising, being able to reproduce those, actual speaking skill, memory effort. It involves new ways of thinking about and representing/expressing things we've been comfortable encountering in native plus however many other languages have been mastered. This is a real challenge.

Reading some posts above it is clear that there are both some realities of diminished abilities with age, as well as some accrued benefits from experience and better organisation, also time and less frantic outlook in general.

* This is also one of the reasons why time seems to pass so quickly when we age. Familiar patterns and fewer surprises.

[Cainntear]

I never like the line: "I'm too old to..." to me it's feels like a sign of defeat.

I’m too old to care about TikTok.

lol
Not sure if it's age or just sense.

This is a language forum, and spelling mistakes will not be tolerated, even if they are the names of app and/or web services!!! CK, people, CK!!!

[leosmith]

I never like the line: "I'm too old to..." to me it's feels like a sign of defeat.

I’m too old to care about TikTok.

lol
Not sure if it's age or just sense.

This is a language forum, and spelling mistakes will not be tolerated, even if they are the names of app and/or web services!!! CK, people, CK!!!

In that case, it's 抖音.

[Iversen]

Reading some posts above it is clear that there are both some realities of diminished abilities with age, as well as some accrued benefits from experience and better organisation, also time and less frantic outlook in general. This is also one of the reasons why time seems to pass so quickly when we age. Familiar patterns and fewer surprises.[/i]

And maybe elderly people feel that time flies by because they already have forgotten most of the things that have happened within the last month or year...

But having read Le Baron's post above I feel happy for having the kind of mind that wants half of the world to run automatically so that I can forget about it, while I try not to do the same thing twice in the row when it comes to the other half. I don't eat the same yoghurt twice in a row, I switch between half a dozen languages in a day and listen to my music collection from A to Z instead of returning to the same favorite pieces again and again. Familiar patterns and fewer surprises are the immovable background to the things that make life crawl ahead.

Kunst188.JPG

PS: actually I don't like surprises at all

[Sae]

I never like the line: "I'm too old to..." to me it's feels like a sign of defeat.

I’m too old to care about TikTok.

lol
Not sure if it's age or just sense.

This is a language forum, and spelling mistakes will not be tolerated, even if they are the names of app and/or web services!!! CK, people, CK!!!

In that case, it's 抖音.

I think the joke is lost on me, with only a surface knowledge of TikTok and China and the Chinese language, I am only biased to their neighbours North and South. Though I do see that is the translation of "TikTok" but I am missing a piece of the puzzle lol.

[Granrey]

I think most of those assumptions are based on old methods of studying and old way of lives.

I'm currently in my late 40's and in the last 5 years I have been able to achieve more designations and certifications than in the previous 30 years. Online courses have helped a lot.

I do find that currently there are too many ways, resources and technologies to help you learn.

For instance, when I learned English in my late teens. I went to an institute for it. Every Saturday for a year. I only used the book that was used at the institute.

Right now I'm learning french, I have found so many free books about how to learn French that I'm not sure if I will be able to read them all before I learn French. I wish 20 years ago had been like this.

Too many apps plus YouTube.

I have learned so many things in YouTube that I have used that at work places they think I went to school for it.

I also use Bluetooth earpieces (bone) that allow me to listen to audio while doing my normal duties.

You can also grab text from books, get apps to do translations, download the audio on your phone and so on and playthem on your phone. Back in the day you had no idea how something was pronounced unless you had a cassette or CD.

I have learned more French in 6 weeks than months of English back then.

So basically, even if our minds are not as sharp as before, technology has advanced so much to over compensate for your mind aging.