Esperanto, why bother?

[Iversen]

To Le Baron: I have actually dealt enough with Esperanto to know that it can cope with even complicated scientific subjects, but also for smalltalk communication - if you run into somebody with whom you can communicate, that is. As for the choice of translated Tolkien instead of things written in Esperanto; well, at each and every congress there is a book market, but the only time I really had wanted to buy a certain book (one about astronomy) it was sold out. And the rest of the books didn't really appeal to me. I chose Tolkien because I already knew the originals and had found them complicated enough to be interesting.

To Kullman: It can't be irrelevant whether a language can be learnt in half the time it would take to learn another - but of course you need other reasons too. And "adding a new language below your nick" is not one of them. Availability of materials and access to other speakers are far more important, and because of the channels created by the Esperantists themselves those things actually exist.

"Esperanto is a good language for polyglots and hardcore language learners... beside them... i really don't see it." And you don't have to see it.

To Tastyonions (below): Personally I am interested in languages, and that's one reason for learning one whose history is different. But it's true that Esperanto doesn't have as much cultural background or as many materials as the languages Tastyonions has chosen to study - but enough to make it worthwhile. And you would have the same problem with many 'small' languages and dialects. Utilitarianism in understandable, but it would make the world uniform and grey.

Useful for business or immigrating to another country? No. -- True - no army and no fleet and no country
Connection to family or heritage? Almost certainly not. -- False: As likely as connections to other small communities in the world
Enhances travel experience when you go to a place where it's spoken in daily life? No. --False: opera fans go on special tours to hear their favorite operas, and football fanatics travel far and wide to watch their favorite tems lose. I have been to five Esperanto congresses, and I suppose that counts as much as watching five operas or one football game (and be beaten up)
Rich literature, music, film, or other culture? No. -- Partly true. The keyword is "rich": most non fiction in Esperanto discusses the language itself or its history, but there are enough videos and homepages out there not to leave me totally starved. Maybe a one year long ban on mentioning the name "Zamenhof" might help...

... beautiful? Debatable. The letter "ĥ" is ugly because it attaches a diacritical to the top of a letter that already is high enough, and the widespread use of x's to avoid letters with diacritical additions is definitely ugly - but apart from that I don't find Esperanto extraordinarily beautiful nor particularly ugly. It's just a language among all the other languages, and the ears are in the eyes of the beholder (as they say..)

[tastyonions]

It baffles me that people who choose to learn Esperanto can't expect the same level of courtesy

Is it really so baffling? Esperanto lacks nearly everything that attracts people to other languages.

Useful for business or immigrating to another country? No.
Connection to family or heritage? Almost certainly not.
Enhances travel experience when you go to a place where it's spoken in daily life? No.
Rich literature, music, film, or other culture? No.

The analogy with extinct languages works somewhat, but even there many of them still have lots of written work to enjoy, intertwine with the history of nations and peoples, and have long been the subject of academic study.

For Esperantists the main attraction of the language seems to be just talking with the sort of people who are interested in Esperanto. Maybe there are some who learn it simply because they think it's beautiful in itself, I don't know.

Anyway, that's why many scratch their heads.

[Sae]

Personally, I don't want to learn Spanish and it's incomprehensible to me why anyone else would.

You know there is a place called America, where most of the countries population speak some form of spanish, right?

No one is asking you to stop learning esperanto, or klingon for that matter... we only try to understand the appeal in this...

There are people who learn ancient languages like aramaic, which is even less useful than esperanto, and no one cares about them...

Whilst I think there are no doubt people who're genuinely interested in what the appeal is because they don't 'get' it, but it has become quite apparent even as somebody who is still somewhat new to language learning communities is that Esperanto gets a lot of flack and I already seen a couple or so threads since I've been here where it is polarising topic.

However, the bit I don't get is why that it is so polarising and is a spark for heated discussions.

[Le Baron]

If adding a new language below your nick is the only thing that matters, then sure... do that.

Esperanto is a good language for polyglots and hardcore language learners... beside them... i really don't see it.

I doubt it's for that reason and even if it was it's no different than adding any other language below a name; especially when they're below intermediate or 'mothballed' or on the shelf permanently. Most 'polyglots' on here don't even study it.

Your post is a clue to your view and as such just goes in a meaningless circle.

[Kullman]

As I said... I understand the appeal for hardcore language learners, and both Iversen and Le Baron are into this group, so I can understand why you find interesting esperanto...

I don't buy the "it's easy to understand complex scientific concepts", as it would be even easier with your own native languages, and I'm pretty sure you are going to find more literatura about any topic in english or danish than in esperanto...

However, the bit I don't get is why that it is so polarising and is a spark for heated discussions.

Because esperanto speakers are usually activists about this language...

[Le Baron]

I don't buy the "it's easy to understand complex scientific concepts", as it would be even easier with your own native languages, and I'm pretty sure you are going to find more literatura about any topic in english or danish than in esperanto...

It wasn't that. It was in reference to people having the ability to talk about complex topics (of any kind) together in that language. Not me reading a science book in Esperanto to understand something rather than just reading it in English. I'd never do that.

[Le Baron]

That 'for business' thing should really be addressed. I doubt a great majority on here are learning their chosen languages 'for business'. If they are they should stop reading Harry Potter novels. Don't we already know the horrid fact that 'for business' means you really can get away with using English and that the vast majority of your counterparts in business dealings will be the ones the company has elected to 'do business' because they are the ones who are best at English?

Yes there are lots of cases where it might be best to know the other languages, but let's be real for a moment. Who hasn't witnessed the ridiculous spectacle of a French person 'doing business' speaking English with a Spaniard or a German? Of a German with an Italian? Ad nauseam.

This reason is a non-starter. In fact it's a reason for Esperanto!

[Radioclare]

It baffles me that people who choose to learn Esperanto can't expect the same level of courtesy

Is it really so baffling? Esperanto lacks nearly everything that attracts people to other languages.

I understand why lots of people don't want to learn Esperanto. And I'm happy to respond to questions which come from a place of genuine interest, which is why I normally try to say something constructive in these threads. I've been actively involved in the organised Esperanto movement for years and I have plenty I can say about it if people interested. My starting assumption is generally that they're not

The bit that baffles me is the sense I get that some people struggle to accept that other people just have different hobbies, interests and priorities to them. We all have the option to hold opinions that other people's choices of target languages are wrong/pointless/useless, whilst simultaneously keeping those opinions to ourselves. The point I was trying to make when I mentioned Spanish was that it seems to be socially acceptable to criticise Esperanto and/or people who learn it here, in a way which I don't think would be tolerated for other languages.

I guess some of these threads just make me start to feel a bit unwelcome on this forum, which is a shame as I don't really use it to talk about Esperanto much anyway!

[tastyonions]

I'm certainly not actively hostile to Esperanto, and this thread is the first and probably the last time for me to put in my two cents about it. I also feel that the degree of rage Esperanto seems to inspire in some (to the point that they'll post aggressive rants in nearly every thread in which it comes up) is absurd. It's not for me, but then most other languages aren't either, so usually I just leave the topic alone.

[Sae]

However, the bit I don't get is why that it is so polarising and is a spark for heated discussions.

Because esperanto speakers are usually activists about this language...

So it's like veganism? Something that is perfectly fine and not for everybody, a group of people who represent them are obnoxious about it pushing it on others so a counter group then exists to argue why it's pointless/stupid (in their eyes) whenever the topic appears and among them are those who're equally obnoxious about it and all we gain is something that's not controversial but ends up divisive and heated and might as well be controversial?