Esperanto, why bother?

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Esperanto, why bother?

Postby rdearman » Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:56 am

I don't want to disparage people who learn Esperanto, but I have always been curious who you would speak to? Outside of polyglot conferences the only person I ever saw use it was a well-dodgy guy who used it on Usenet 20 years ago.

If I go to France there is a better than average chance to speak with someone in French. Esperanto... Not so much.

I understand that there are little clubs of people who use it, kind of like stamp collection clubs or knitting circles, only less popular. But when you're out in the world walking around who do you speak to?
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Re: Esperanto, why bother?

Postby Iversen » Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:03 am

I actually learnt it for a conference in Copenhagen and continued to ramp it somewhat up afterwards. And I am still a member of the international UEA organization, but not any of the local clubs here. However I have noticed that it is widely used also at the gatherings and to some extent the polyglot conferences, so it's not the least used of my languages.

As for finding someone to speak to (outside holidays, conference visits and mayby a random tourist here in Denmark) - if that was my criterion then I should drop all my languages except Danish (and maybe English, but even that isn't sure). I do however listen more than I speak, and at least my Germanic and Romance languages have proved to be ready for use once I get a rare opportunity to those them. Esperanto - well, give me an hour to get the wheels turning again, and then your problem will be to stop me from talking...
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Re: Esperanto, why bother?

Postby Gaoling97 » Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:26 am

I have always been curious about this too. Supporting Esperanto as a project, okay. Or learning it to read any books that have been written in/translated into Esperanto. Or just for fun.

But is there any real reason to ever speak to somebody in Esperanto? I guess to have a thing that can connect you to like-minded people? I would find it hard to believe that there are a lot of people out there who can a) speak Esperanto, and b) can't speak English. I mean, it's a language almost exclusively learned by language learning enthusiasts, yeah? But if "Esperantist" is an identity thing, then I guess I can understand it.
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Re: Esperanto, why bother?

Postby Iversen » Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:02 pm

Having met a wide assortment of Esperantists (albeit for obvious reasons only active ones) I can confirm that it seems to be an identity thing for many of them - and that's probably one important key to its survival. Many of them seriously believe in world peace :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: and a worldwide international community and other fata morganas - in some cases also more limited, but realistic endeavours like stamp colllection, naturism and finding a job at the railways. But for me it's just one language more to be learnt - on the level of something like Latin or Albanese or Low German. It's different enough from the others to make it interesting, and it's not totally impossible to find occasions to use it. There are even videos about science in the language ...
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Re: Esperanto, why bother?

Postby Kullman » Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:13 pm

It's the neverending debate...

It's an artificial language which is only used in artificial setups...

You won't be approached by someone speaking esperanto, and you won't approach someone in esperanto...

If you try to comunicate with someone who doesn't speak your language, you will try the usual "Do you speak english?" or "Parli italiano?", but you will never try with "ĉu vi parolas esperanton?"
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Re: Esperanto, why bother?

Postby Le Baron » Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:20 pm

Kullman wrote:It's the neverending debate...

It's an artificial language which is only used in artificial setups...

You won't be approached by someone speaking esperanto, and you won't approach someone in esperanto...

If you try to comunicate with someone who doesn't speak your language, you will try the usual "Do you speak english?" or "Parli italiano?", but you will never try with "ĉu vi parolas esperanton?"

Actually I have tried that. As a random question in the wider world the chances are far, vastly lower than 'do you speak English', but if you go to places where you think people might speak it, who knows? If everyone takes the view that 'there's no point' then nothing ever happens.

In any case, asking people 'do you speak Italian' is also quite limited. Asking 'do you speak Spanish' within Europe is even more limited. So why bother with that? It's only the addition of Latin America making it highly visible.
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Re: Esperanto, why bother?

Postby Iversen » Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:41 pm

Kullman wrote:It's an artificial language which is only used in artificial setups...

Yes, and that's why there are such setups available (including polyglot events). And chances are that you can use the language there, and then you can use the local language outside the venue. That's actually not a bad combination, and better than you get at home with many 'small' languages. There is even a lille green needle which hardcore Esperantists can choose to wear - and maybe they have also invented an app now that pinpoints the nearest 'samideano'. I think I once got a green needle, but I have never worn it - not even at the conference venues because there everyone speaks Esperanto.

As for being articifial ... well, who cares - once you start learning it Esperanto functions like any other language. And it has also got a limited number of native speakers, though you are not likely to meet them outside the artificial setups. Those who focus on its humble origins are people who haven't tried to learn it, and they are free to grit their teeth on other languages (and spend a year more per language).

And speaking about artificialness - aren't Duolingo and other similar systems artificial setups too? And force poor innocent strangers in the streets to speak English or Italian? Well, Italian in Italy and English in Anglophone countries, fine (or immigrants in your own country) - but apart from that it's a deeply unnatural situation too, and one I I'm loath to resort to unless I know absolutely nothing of the local language. And English is used all over the place, but to speak Italian I would probably have to buy a trip to Italy - the number of Italians I have met in Denmark is quite limited, and I don't just attack Italian visitors because I have heard them speak Italian among themselves. Besides most pizzerias have personnel from the middle East, not Italy, so I can not even use that trick.
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Re: Esperanto, why bother?

Postby philomath » Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:59 pm

I just think it’s fun.
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Re: Esperanto, why bother?

Postby Radioclare » Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:23 pm

I have definitely spoken to people who don't speak English in Esperanto. In fact, one of the first people I ever used Esperanto with was a girl from Moldova who didn't speak a single word of English, just Russian and Esperanto.

But if you come at Esperanto from an ideological point of view then it's not really about trying to track down those rare people who don't speak English. Sure, lots of people speak English. But when I speak English with a French person, I have a massive advantage in that conversation just because a chance of birth means I happened to grow up speaking English. I can speak quite happily at my normal speed using my normal vocabulary, while they have to decipher my regional accent and struggle with my colloquial British phrases. And if I speak French with a French person, they have a massive advantage in that conversation because my French is really terrible :lol: Speaking Esperanto is more equitable, because it's (almost) no one's first language. The idea is supposed to be that it's easy enough for everyone to learn and use as a second language for international communication that disadvantages nobody and is free from all the political and historical baggage that the national languages carry.

Not everyone subscribes to that idea, which is fine. There are lots of people I've spoken to in Esperanto who I could also have spoken to in English or another language. But generally I find that people who learn Esperanto get to a stage where they can speak it fluently quite quickly, with it often becoming their strongest foreign language and the language that they're most comfortable at expressing themselves in, even if they already speak reasonable English. The majority of novels and poetry and music which appears in Esperanto is created by people who learned it as a second language. Even on this forum, few of us get to a stage in our other target languages where our writing is of a publishable standard.

In answer to rdearman's original question: no, you don't walk down the street and bump into people who speak Esperanto. I think I've only ever bumped into an Esperanto speaker once and that was just a coincidence in an airport. But there are regular events all around the world, both physical and online, almost every day so it's not very difficult to find things to get involved in and people to talk to if that's what you want to do. Generally Esperanto speakers are pretty friendly and there's a strong sense of community. Yes, it probably takes a bit more effort to find an Esperanto speaker than it does to find a French speaker in Paris. But once you find the Esperanto speakers, you can rest assured that they will be extremely enthusiastic about speaking with you in Esperanto; much more enthusiastic than anyone in Paris is likely to be about letting you practise your French :lol: In that sense I'd say that Esperanto has actually been the easiest of my languages to get speaking practice in.

I once worked with someone who said to me "The problem with Esperanto is that if I learned it, I'd only be able to talk to the sort of people who learn Esperanto". If that's a deal-breaker for you, better to learn another language :D
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Re: Esperanto, why bother?

Postby rdearman » Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:44 pm

Radioclare wrote:I once worked with someone who said to me "The problem with Esperanto is that if I learned it, I'd only be able to talk to the sort of people who learn Esperanto". If that's a deal-breaker for you, better to learn another language

Actually that is kinda my problem with the whole thing. Because I want to be able to communicate with people in their country in there language. I want to buy a train ticket in Italy in Italian, I want to order food in a french café in French, etc. Esperanto doesn't help me in that regard which is why it doesn't really appeal. Also the Esperanto fanatics don't help win me over.
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