I hate French - help!

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unionfan
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I hate French - help!

Postby unionfan » Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:27 pm

Hello all, I'm here out of desperation.
I'm English and live in France and my learning of French has totally plateau'd. I've come across all the usual advice about immersion, reading, television, radio etc and right now it's just not working. At B2 level, I'm finding I hate this nonsensical and illogical language with such a passion that it is ruining my motivation to do anything else here. We still have weekly French lessons (after 6 years) and I just hate every minute of it. Nothing gets retained more than 60 minutes after each lesson and I resent with every fibre having to "organise" and "make time" to learn every single day! I want it to just sink in like it does for the 10-year olds.

I'm running two businesses, one of which is agricultural so I do not have the ability to drop everything to do with life to spend a daily hour on French. It's too hard and no longer makes any sense to me and if I were less bothered about being "that ignorant immigrant", I would just give up! I am not motivated to do anything this difficult; I've got too much else to do with my time.

So, I need help with motivation, changing-up the learning to something that works and not hating this damn language. Any and all ideas gratefully received :-)
Thanks in advance, UF.
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orlandohill
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Re: I hate French - help!

Postby orlandohill » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:08 pm

When you say weekly French lessons, I assume that you mean paid tutoring sessions, either in person or online. It sounds like you aren't getting what you need from those lessons, so I would consider stopping them.

How many hours per week can you realistically spend on actively learning French? What about during your holidays? One hour per week is going to result in slow progress for anyone. If there were a few weeks per year where you could spend 20+ hours per week, that time could be planned for in advance and used effectively.
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Re: I hate French - help!

Postby iguanamon » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:46 pm

If you were outside of a francophone country learning French, I'd advise you to quit; stop; desist. That's not the case. So, it's not an option.

What I would quit would be the weekly French lesson because it is obviously not motivating you and seems to be having the opposite effect. Would you expect someone else to have created and run your businesses for you? Why would you expect someone else to do that for your French?

Having two businesses in France, clearly you are busy Are you so busy that all you do is work? Do you never take time to do anything not business related?

Looking at this situation selfishly, don't you think that being able to effectively communicate in French would improve your companies' bottom line, even if only in an intangible way? I do.

There are ways you can improve your French on your own, even if you are busy. We all have time we spend waiting, commuting, watching sports. Why not waste that time in French instead?!

Surely there must be something that interests you. Reading is one way to improve language skills. If you don't have time to read, you can listen. Along with that, when you don't understand things, a handy dictionary and a grammar can help. Even a couple of hours of conversation practice a week can help. This can be paid conversation via the italki platform or free on conversation exchange. There are many ways to make this a productive activity.

Using the language on a daily basis is one of the most important ways to learn it. Nobody is going to teach you C level French. You're going to have to do that yourself... or just assume everyone will speak English (not everyone will), that you'll understand their sub-par English (what torture) and just deal with it. Admit your failure and keep banking those profits from your businesses.

I assume that by joining this forum and writing your post asking for help, that you want to progress in French. So, to sum up, drop the lessons. Start reading and listening, writing and speaking. Find/create some time to do this. Keep doing this. Reading will be hard (think kindle and pop-up dictionary), listening will be hard (think transcript) or audio book of what you're reading. This will be difficult, but you will improve over time. You just have to keep going.

You created, advanced, and grew two businesses in a foreign country. You can do this, you're just going to have to do it yourself. We can help, but you'll have to provide more background details on what you can do, and what you can't do, with your French.

Welcome to the forum!
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Re: I hate French - help!

Postby Carmody » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:54 pm

iguanamon is one very eloquent dude!
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Re: I hate French - help!

Postby DaveAgain » Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:37 pm

unionfan wrote: At B2 level, I'm finding I hate this nonsensical and illogical language with such a passion that it is ruining my motivation to do anything else here.
B2 sounds quite advanced, are there things you are unable to do that you want to be able to do?
We still have weekly French lessons (after 6 years) and I just hate every minute of it. Nothing gets retained more than 60 minutes after each lesson and I resent with every fibre having to "organise" and "make time" to learn every single day! I want it to just sink in like it does for the 10-year olds.
If you're that negative about the lessons, I doubt you're going to get much out of them. One thing 10 year olds do is memorise things, you could try that, a poem, a song, a short story, something.

if I were less bothered about being "that ignorant immigrant", I would just give up! I am not motivated to do anything this difficult; I've got too much else to do with my time.
In what way do you fear you come over as ignorant? B2 sounds like a level you would be able to communicate just fine with people.
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Re: I hate French - help!

Postby Picaboo » Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:03 pm

unionfan wrote:Hello all, I'm here out of desperation.
I'm English and live in France and my learning of French has totally plateau'd. I've come across all the usual advice about immersion, reading, television, radio etc and right now it's just not working. At B2 level, I'm finding I hate this nonsensical and illogical language with such a passion that it is ruining my motivation to do anything else here.


This is my opinion. I would look internally. It seems like you have quite a bit of anger/shame/resentment built up after ten years of having to learn the language. You also have negative emotions about not being perfect even though your level is likely adequate for your needs. You run into things you don't understand, you make mistakes in public, it makes you feel bad even if you don't realize it. Ultimately, you attribute those negative feelings to something external--the language. This then feeds back into your learning.

You need to find something that makes you fall in love with the language. Someone you love to talk to, a novel, a business dealing. If not in love at least appreciate it and its role in your life.

Stop outsourcing your learning to a weekly lesson you hate.

Realize B2 is excellent. If you really want to get better, faster, take responsibility over you learning. Hire a language learning coach. Analyze your strengths and weaknesses. Make a plan and stick to it.

Listen to something like the Rich Roll podcast. I used to scoff at self-help, but it changed my life.

I believe the hurdle you are facing is yourself, not the language. You will need a positive mindset and put in the hours, or you need to accept your current level and its growth rate. Or continue to suffer. Definitely, talk to a language learning coach or two, is my advice. And drop the lessons!
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Re: I hate French - help!

Postby Le Baron » Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:17 pm

I can understand the possibility of being 'B2' and yet feeling sub-par. B2 is great and gets you a fair way, but I think perhaps OP is meeting situations where there is a a lot of colloquial speech (and likely rapid speech) and the general L2 structured approach is not making the grade.

So to quote from Iguanamon above:
Using the language on a daily basis is one of the most important ways to learn it.

This might seem tiresomely easy to say, but it is a fact. Alongside this I think your own frustration at having put several years into this, whilst having to live with it as a daily language is pushing you into the vicious circle of frustration-aversion, which of course destroys all learning motivation.

Put the brakes on. Right now you are likely just keeping the engine going on fumes and it is stressful and demoralising. Also as above you need to reassess the tutoring you are getting because it is doing nothing for you as it is right now. Firstly talk to the teacher and tell them exactly (except the 'hate' bit) what you have posted here. Unless the teacher is just waiting for the money, he/she will want to help you. Will be well-placed to see what might be going wrong.

Let's suggest some things though... I'm guessing (though you can correct me) that you must be at least casually following the papers, TV news, doing sundry business and using the language daily? You are 'B2' and this normally allows competent navigation. So specify to us what your aim is beyond the plateau. What age were you when you started? Have you learned a foreign language before? Are you alongside a person/people you feel is/are doing better than you?

I will meet you at one level and agree that, depending where you are, the French can be extremely unreasonable with regard to other people speaking French. Impatient, unhelpful, demanding, nitpicky and self-appointed experts with regard to grammar/pronunciation, which just puts people off and makes them feel incompetent. That sort of thing needs managing. To firstly make it clear that you don't need belittling 'lessons' from Joe Public and if they'd prefer you to speak colloquial English you'll do that, or they can shut-up and carry on in French since you are making the effort. Beyond that all the effort has to be on your part.

Not only that, you might want to reassess and achieve clarity with regard to your goal. Could you explain where the exact difficulties are? If you can you'll have identified things to remedy. If you say something like: "50% of a person's reply gets lost to me as gibberish.." you may need to focus hard upon listening and bulking up your vocabulary. And particularly vocabulary you find yourself needing day-to-day. If you say: "I struggle to find the best words to formulate a reply..." then you need to work on formulating replies in the most efficient and simplest manner using models other people use. Plus perhaps vocabulary enrichment. Which means getting into many conversations rather than just attending classes and waiting for lessons to sink in and come out the other end as 'French'.

Beyond this, and considering your free time limit, you may need to scale back your goal and take smaller steps. Either that or put all the free time you do have toward straightening out some of the problems, at least for some period of time.
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Re: I hate French - help!

Postby Lisa » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:17 pm

Excellent replies and I don't know enough to give advice, but I sympathize - I have always had a chip on my shoulder when it comes to french and I'm not finding anything about it very reasonable on closer study, I've never had this much trouble. But languages are like weather - they are what they are, no matter how much one can make a logical argument that they are badly designed. I do rail against the german adjective endings, but if I took it personally, the resistance would make it impossible to learn (and make life miserable).
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Re: I hate French - help!

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:42 pm

Maybe your French is already good enough? Language is a tool, maybe your French already meets your needs. That’s okay! Lots and lots and lots of people live their daily lives at a B2 level. It’s noticeable, but it’s not necessarily a problem. Don’t feel guilty or ashamed if you’d rather devote your extra energy to other activities that are more meaningful to you.
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Carmody
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Re: I hate French - help!

Postby Carmody » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:12 pm

Lawyer&Mom » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:42 am

Maybe your French is already good enough? Language is a tool, maybe your French already meets your needs. That’s okay! Lots and lots and lots of people live their daily lives at a B2 level. It’s noticeable, but it’s not necessarily a problem. Don’t feel guilty or ashamed if you’d rather devote your extra energy to other activities that are more meaningful to you.


I think this observation is incredibly profound; and few can grasp it although it applies to all of us. Thank you.

I am just now beginning to think I am where I want to be......
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