Success Stories of Learning Category 5 Languages?

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lichtrausch
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Re: Success Stories of Learning Category 5 Languages?

Postby lichtrausch » Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:39 am

Adrianslont wrote:I recently stumbled across a French guy, Julien Gaudfroy, who speaks immaculate Chinese evidently. I don’t speak it myself so I have to trust the YouTube comments from Chinese people. It sure sounds great.

Interesting conversation they were having too, about what it's like for a French guy to date Chinese women. The host of that show, Dou Wentao, is one of the greatest interviewers out there and more recently hosts the show 圆桌派 (Yuánzhuōpài) which is on Youtube.
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Re: Success Stories of Learning Category 5 Languages?

Postby Adrianslont » Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:28 am

lichtrausch wrote:
Adrianslont wrote:I recently stumbled across a French guy, Julien Gaudfroy, who speaks immaculate Chinese evidently. I don’t speak it myself so I have to trust the YouTube comments from Chinese people. It sure sounds great.

Interesting conversation they were having too, about what it's like for a French guy to date Chinese women. The host of that show, Dou Wentao, is one of the greatest interviewers out there and more recently hosts the show 圆桌派 (Yuánzhuōpài) which is on Youtube.

Lichtrausch, you would surely qualify as a success story of learning cat 5 languages?
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Re: Success Stories of Learning Category 5 Languages?

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:23 pm

Adrianslont wrote:I recently stumbled across a French guy, Julien Gaudfroy, who speaks immaculate Chinese evidently. I don’t speak it myself so I have to trust the YouTube comments from Chinese people. It sure sounds great.


I was thinking of Julien Gaudfroy when I saw this thread - he jumped into a discussion about these very video clips back in 2007:
Learning Chinese - an encouraging video (HTLAL)

Excerpts from his post on page 3:
Julien wrote:I started studying Chinese in 1998/.../
I started with tapes, and always by myself./.../
learn THEN understand is the key rule/.../
if you want to be fluent speaking and reading, it takes at least two to three years/.../
Give three intense years of your life to Chinese, and you will be superficially fluent./.../
In a way, I felt fluent even after a few months! And back then already on the phone some people didn't notice that I was not Chinese. Of course I had to be in control of the conversation...
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Re: Success Stories of Learning Category 5 Languages?

Postby Adrianslont » Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:34 am

jeff_lindqvist wrote:I was thinking of Julien Gaudfroy when I saw this thread - he jumped into a discussion about these very video clips back in 2007:
Learning Chinese - an encouraging video (HTLAL)

Excerpts from his post on page 3:
Julien wrote:I started studying Chinese in 1998/.../
I started with tapes, and always by myself./.../
learn THEN understand is the key rule/.../
if you want to be fluent speaking and reading, it takes at least two to three years/.../
Give three intense years of your life to Chinese, and you will be superficially fluent./.../
In a way, I felt fluent even after a few months! And back then already on the phone some people didn't notice that I was not Chinese. Of course I had to be in control of the conversation...

Thanks for the link to that htal thread, Jeff.

It was very interesting and salutary to hear directly from Julien.

I was interested in his takes on other Chinese dialects/languages and the required effort after learning mandarin. And on his belief in imitation and immersion versus grammar.

I’m too lazy to cut and paste as you have done. I will lazily just recommend others read that thread if they are interested in how to get to native speaker level in any language as an adult learner.

And I would love to hear from him about his English language learning and if it differed much from his learning of mandarin. And what he has learned in the fifteen years since that thread.
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Re: Success Stories of Learning Category 5 Languages?

Postby Querneus » Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:29 am

Saim wrote:
louisianne wrote:I passed a B2 exam of Arabic in 2022.


Where did you take the exam, out of curiosity? It doesn’t seem like Arabic has any equivalent of the Cervantes or Goethe Institute.

I'm going to guess it was Eckehard Schulz's (the author of that Beginner-Intermediate Arabic textbook) TOAFL Al-Arabiyya test.

Adrianslont wrote:
lichtrausch wrote:Interesting conversation they were having too, about what it's like for a French guy to date Chinese women. The host of that show, Dou Wentao, is one of the greatest interviewers out there and more recently hosts the show 圆桌派 (Yuánzhuōpài) which is on Youtube.

Lichtrausch, you would surely qualify as a success story of learning cat 5 languages?

Hopefully lichtrausch is simply taking his time writing the post, since he'd need to do a write-up for both Japanese and Mandarin (and maybe Korean too). :P
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Re: Success Stories of Learning Category 5 Languages?

Postby lichtrausch » Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:59 am

I passed JLPT Level 1 a while back and use Japanese for work. I've also had some lesser success in Mandarin and Korean, but practically speaking they are no longer Cat 5 languages if you're coming at them from a Japanese base.

--length of time, hours per week, studying regularity
~4 years from Intro to Japanese to passing Level 1. Consistently studied around 20 hours a week if I remember correctly.

--resources
Course books and grammars: Tae Kim's grammar guide, Genki 1, Genki 2, Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese, Japanisch mit Manga 2
Readers: Read Real Japanese Fiction, Breaking Into Japanese Literature
Reference books: Kanji und Kana (Hadamitzky)
Mass input: news articles, j-dramas, novels, news shows, and in more recent times Youtube and reality TV. Japanese content with Japanese subtitles was scarce back in the day, which led to my reading skills outpacing my listening skills.

--use of tutors and/or teachers
I did a minor in Japanese, but had no one after that.

--if you were in TL country or elsewhere.
Out of country.

If I ever tackle Arabic it will be after Persian, so Japanese is essentially my first and last true Cat 5 experience.
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Re: Success Stories of Learning Category 5 Languages?

Postby leosmith » Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:44 am

Xenops wrote:I'm also aware of leosmith's The ‘I don't Hate Korean’ Thread.
I’ll just do a brief summary here – if you want more specific details, please ask. I consider myself to be upper-intermediate in Japanese, Mandarin and Korean conversation. How good I am in the other skills is less straightforward. For example, I’m quite good at one-on-one listening, in a conversation, but not nearly as good at figuring out what people are saying in movies and such.

I started learning Japanese at the end of 2004. My co-workers were Japanese, so I wanted to learn some. The company gave us a free 16 hour class, and I decided to continue even after I quit. I did a spurt that lasted about 1.5 years, and probably put in over 2000 hours, maybe averaging 5 study sessions per week. I actually hired two private (not virtual) tutors using Craigslist, but did very few lessons with them. My conversation was terrible, but I had a base. Then I went to Japan for a couple weeks. I had a lot of fun, and put in another year or so spurt when I got back. This time I used online tutors and language partners. My conversation improved, and over the next few years I visited Japan 4 more times, 2 to 4 weeks per visit (between jobs). I now speak the language quite well, and maintain it twice per month although once per month is probably sufficient.

I started Mandarin in 2007, because a friend from the Peace Corps invited me to his wedding with a Chinese woman in Chong Qing. I had 9 months until his wedding. Having learned some lessons from Japanese and Thai, I started with Pimsleur and hired a Chinese tutor from Craigslist after a couple months. We met for one hour, 5 days per week, for those remaining 7 months. I cannot remember what percentage of these classes were L2, but my conversation was really bad when I got to China, so probably not a high percentage. After the trip, I could not quit the language because I felt it would have been a waste. My conversation improved from talking to language partners, and over the next few years I visited China 4 more times. I now speak the language well, but not quite as good as Japanese. I maintain it twice per month, which feels about right.

I started Korean in 2016 because I really wanted to learn the last of the big three Asian languages. I studied like mad for 1 year; averaged about 7hrs per day. I had Mandarin and Japanese under my belt, vastly improved study methods and vastly improved resources. The biggest change was using Italki teachers daily, L2 only 1 hour conversations, for the final 9 months before going to Korea. Unlike the first time I went to Japan and China, my conversation was already a solid intermediate when I arrived in Korea. I stayed there for a month, and have returned twice since then. I maintain it twice per month, and my level stays about the same, but I want to do a long spurt to get it up to the level of my Japanese.
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Re: Success Stories of Learning Category 5 Languages?

Postby QueenBee » Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:49 am

Since at least 2017, I've been able to have conversations in Japanese on any topic. I'm currently reading Murakami's 1Q84 (in Japanese) and will take the JLPT N1 this December.

Now for the depressing part:

--length of time, hours per week, studying regularity
Started in 2004! That's an insane amount of calendar time, but it's been more on than off. I had to take a (long) break from Japanese to focus on French (and Spanish, which I later abandoned). Also took many long breaks due to episodes of depression in my teens and 20's.

I have no idea how many hours at this point I've actually been learning.

--resources
Back in 2004, I googled "Japanese grammar" and found Tim Takamtsu's lessons, including his excellent verb lessons. I worked through all of those.
Years later, I tried to use "Japanese for busy people" but was bored to tears by it. I did more googling and found AJATT. Never went at Japanese with full AJATT-level intensity, but I did use input + Anki from that point on, which took me from a low N4-ish (?) level to high N2 in a couple of years.

For kanji: I've had many false starts and failed attempts, both with rote memorization and with Heisig. Currently using an adapted version of Heisig (the Kanji Koohi forums) + Anki to study for the 漢検 level 4 - a kanji test meant for native Japanese ~14 year olds.

--use of tutors and/or teachers
I had a few lessons with a tutor, but otherwise self-taught.

--TL country or elsewhere?
Out of country. I've only ever gotten to visit Japan as a tourist.
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Re: Success Stories of Learning Category 5 Languages?

Postby Kazumi » Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:32 pm

'What are some success stories of learners studying a category 5 language?''

FSI categories are for English speakers.
It would be interesting to discuss Category 5 from my perspective. Perhaps I will do so in my log soon. :D

Korean&Chinese
Some Achievements
・Currently C2+ level in both.
・Chinese: Passed HSK 6 in less than 4 months. Not satisfied with HSK standards, passed TOCFL/C2 5 months later, everything through self-study.
・Korean: Certified TOPIK II/Level 6 in a year through self-study.
・Former translator and interpreter for:
Chinese <-> Korean,
Chinese & Korean <-> Japanese, Spanish, Russian, and German.

I've extensively worked in both academic and business domains, for both general and more experts audience, and varying formality levels.

I'm no longer a professional translator and interpreter, but I've specialized in IT. That said, I've also worked for government officials throughout my career. So, I'm also well versed in law (criminal law, international law, contract law, property law etc), using Chinese and Korean <-> languages above.

--Some of the resources:
・HSK
HSK 1 and 2 books: a few hours.
HSK 3 book: 1 week.
HSK 4 book: 1 week.
HSK 5 book: 2 weeks.
HSK 6 books: 1 month.

I did the whole HSK series 1-6 while working full-time (40 hours + overtime) and having private commitments.

・TOCFL materials.
I did this series from textbooks 1 to 6. I can't recall how many words I have learned, but I'd estimate that I have roughly learned and reviewed 8000 words. I remember using my own Anki for both HSK and TOCFL, with audio and translations in either English or Japanese, pictures etc.

・TOPIK
Did little preparation for TOPIK. Learning Korean was very straightforward for me because some similarities or structures resemble Japanese syntax or morphology.

I've used a lot of native resources for both formal and informal variants, and I did everything I needed for all skills: listening, reading, speaking, writing, translation and interpretation.

--use of tutors and/or teachers
I've been using tutors and teachers to maintain my speaking, writing, translation, and interpretation skills. Excellent professional translators and interpreters have trained me in Korean and Chinese languages.

I'm no longer a professional translator and interpreter, but such skill helps keep my brain healthy and active; it prepares me to have fast thinking and response and keep thinking across languages. For example, Chinese <-> Japanese, English, Spanish, Korean, and recently Russian and German. It even helps and can be transferred when doing other activities such as programming. When I think about, how I'd solve the coding problem by using another programming language.
I get some feedback from time to time on my writing skills. Most of the time, they advise me on changing the style accordingly to the audience. It is not about grammar mistakes etc. I've received valuable feedback

--if you were in TL country or elsewhere.
No.
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