Success Stories of Learning Category 5 Languages?

[Gaoling97]

Having given up on Japanese more times than I care to remember, my conclusion is that category 5 languages don't sit well with polyglottery. You cannot mess about with 5 other languages if you want to learn Chinese or Japanese. I have no experience with Arabic or Korean, so cannot comment.

Agreed 100%. I have seen a decent number of people with C2 in five languages...except they are almost invariably all Germanic or Romance languages. The ones I have seen who were super advanced in Chinese tended to be super advanced in Chinese...and nothing else. And even being "super advanced" in Chinese in the first place at all is pretty rare.

Not saying it can't be done (it obviously can), but if "polyglottery" is your goal, AND you want to learn these category 5 languages, you had better be prepared for this to be an undertaking spanning literally several decades (even when focused on just one at a time).

[nooj]

I'm going to repeat my old suggestion to check out a not-quite-so-famous YT polyglot Felix Wang, who studies a variety of languages that are classified in the Category 4-5 level, such as Arabic among many others. However, as far as I understand it, these categories apply to English native speakers who are coming at these languages from English, whereas Felix is a native speaker of Teochew and French, so I don't know if that has any relevance. The thing is that he moves around a lot from language to language.

[RyanSmallwood]

I've been casually learning Mandarin for a while now, I don't think I'd consider myself a B2 yet, since I prioritize enjoying the process and keeping my language learning goals in line with my reading/listening goals, and don't really go out of my way to do output or other things, but so far studying has been really rewarding and enjoyable, its such a staple of my life I doubt I'd ever stop learning. It'd take me at least a decade (being insanely optimistic) to get through the all the kinds of media I'm interested in, and probably there's way more that I don't know about and that will get made if I ever get close to finishing that. So I'd say there's no turning back for me at this point. Been mostly using Listening-Reading, which easy to find resources for with the wide availability of audio for all kinds of content, and also taking advantage of the good graded reader series (with audio) that are adapted from classic stories and works of literature, I do keep up Anki as well just for intensive listening practice and to ensure consistent progress if I want to spend time with my other languages.

I don't think I'd agree that it rules out learning other languages, its certainly a big long term commitment, but not a fulltime lifetime commitment. I've been able to take breaks and still use the European languages I've learnt, and recently I've noticed that I'm able to do Listening-Reading with Cantonese now, so I have plans to add that in eventually for certain books I'm interested in. I've also occasionally dabbling in Korean and Japanese there's some free vocab there, though obviously the languages are different enough that they'd still require some time to really progress with, but its an example of how language learning can support progressing in others and L2 -> L3 resources can help with maintenance and automaticity. I probably wouldn't try to learn another Category 5 language at the same time, but its possible to see good progress with consistency, and they can open doors to related languages. Obviously I'm not going to be giving academic speeches in all the languages I use anytime soon, but making them rewarding long term parts of my life is definitely doable, though its hard to say how far they'll get eventually. The biggest hurdle Mandarin and Cantonese poses to my learning other languages is just having too many books to read, movies to watch and audio dramas to listen to, that maybe I'll never get around to trying another language family.

I do think being such a big commitment that one does have to think very specifically about what and how much you would use them for, and think strategically about how much initial investment it would take before you get to resources/activities where studying becomes enjoyable and rewarding for its own sake. But if you're in the habit of language learning and are familiar with different methods and resources that are available, I definitely think there are long term strategies to make them accessible.

[rdearman]

Having given up on Japanese more times than I care to remember, my conclusion is that category 5 languages don't sit well with polyglottery. You cannot mess about with 5 other languages if you want to learn Chinese or Japanese. I have no experience with Arabic or Korean, so cannot comment.

Agreed 100%. I have seen a decent number of people with C2 in five languages...except they are almost invariably all Germanic or Romance languages. The ones I have seen who were super advanced in Chinese tended to be super advanced in Chinese...and nothing else. And even being "super advanced" in Chinese in the first place at all is pretty rare.

Not saying it can't be done (it obviously can), but if "polyglottery" is your goal, AND you want to learn these category 5 languages, you had better be prepared for this to be an undertaking spanning literally several decades (even when focused on just one at a time).

I would like to introduce Tim Keeley; Professor of Cross-Cultural Management, Kyushu Sangyo University, Fukuoka, Japan. Tim is originally American, but teaches in Japanese. Languages he speaks are Japanese, Chinese, Nepali, Brazilian Portuguese, Afrikaans, Greek, Polish, Spanish, Italian, German, Cantonese, Norwegian, Serbian/Croatian, Korean, Vietnamese, French and Hungarian. And probably a couple more since I last spoke with him. He was studying Tibetan, Sherpa, and Tamang a couple of years ago, so he probably knows those well enough by now.

He is just an average guy who spent a lot of years travelling the world and living in various places. So to be fair he wasn't sat in a room with a book 3000 miles away. He learned Hungarian while cycling around Hungary. He did post graduate studies in Poland, and worked summers in German. But he did put in a lot of hours with a lot of books at the same time as his immersion. He is bloody intelligent, don't get me wrong, and he has probably forgotten more about language learning than I'll ever know. But he is a good example of someone with great success in a Cat 5 language.

[vonPeterhof]

I got from zero to passing the JLPT N1 (roughly the equivalent of C1 in passive skills only) in Japanese in about three years, plus I'd say it took me an additional year to get to a comparable level in active skills. Can't give an exact count of hours per week, but like gsbod I did something pretty much every day, in the time I had outside my university studies and later work.

Main resources:
-James Heisig's Remembering the Kanji (I've said this before, but in hindsight I'd say the benefit of the book was more about helping me overcome the fear of the kanji and starting to feel the task of learning them to be actually doable rather than any lasting knowledge it may have imparted; if Wanikani existed back when I started I might have gone with that instead)
-Tae Kim's grammar guide
-Core 2k/6k Anki decks for learning basic vocabulary in context
-kitsunekko.net for Japanese subs for some popular anime
-mostly anime and manga for basic listening and reading practice
-Aozora Bunko and newspaper columns and editorials for advanced reading practice
-lang-8 for writing practice (not sure if a good alternative has come up after that site died down..)
-Kanzen Master books for N1 preparation, specifically the one for vocabulary, since that was my weakest point the first time I tried to pass the N1 without dedicated preparation

I neither visited Japan nor had teachers or tutors prior to passing the N1, and I didn't really do any language exchanges aside from a few chance encounters with students and tourists from Japan. After passing the N1 I found opportunities to practice my speaking, like a semi-regular Japanese conversational club or a free series of lectures on teaching Japanese as a second language. Then a couple of failed job interviews in Japanese convinced me to actually try out the classes in Japan route, after which I signed up for a three month course at a language school in Osaka. The relatively intense advanced Japanese classes and the elective classes on business language and pronunciation may well have made the difference that actually landed me a successful job interview later.

On the one hand I don't want to rule out the possibility of getting to B2 in more Category 5 languages as a general rule (and I do happen to dabble in all of them on-and-off), on the other hand spreading myself thin between several languages at a time has become such a big part of my everyday language learning routine that I don't really see myself ever dedicating this much time and concentrated effort to a single language ever again.

[rdearman]

Another friend of mine, Andrew Williams, who is retired, but teaches music. He told me his father, a retired diplomat, said to him when he was 10 years old. "Andrew, you should try to learn a new language every year." and he has. He told me over a couple of pints that he starts a new language every year, some he sticks with, some he drops. But the ones he has stuck with and can speak well are: German, Italian, Spanish, Catalan, Dutch, Urdu, Mandarin, Japanese, Latin, Ancient Greek, Welsh, Irish, Farsça, Arabic and Malay. Not a YouTuber, and a nicer, more unassuming man you're unlikely to meet. He does go to the gatherings sometimes, so if you're lucky you might meet him.

There are a lot of people, with a lot of successes in many languages, you just might never encounter them.

[bolaobo]

Having given up on Japanese more times than I care to remember, my conclusion is that category 5 languages don't sit well with polyglottery. You cannot mess about with 5 other languages if you want to learn Chinese or Japanese. I have no experience with Arabic or Korean, so cannot comment.

It's certainly a significant effort, but no need to be so pessimistic. I've learned Chinese to a C1 (estimated) level. I'm not perfect, but I can read novels written for adults and I speak it as my only language at home.

It required pretty dedicated (but inefficient, I was new at the language thing) studying for about 5 years, but that's hardly a lifetime and now it maintains itself with not much effort. It's not like I had to lock myself in a room for 20 years and dedicate my life to Chinese to read an average novel.

Perhaps learning a Category 5 language requires 4x as much time as say...French. But I don't want people to be discouraged and think it's impossible.

[Picaboo]

As far as I'm concerned you question is the equivalent of asking for Success stories of Running a Marathon.
Any normal healthy person is capable of running a marathon. It simply takes dedication.

Category 5 can be learned by any average person. They are not magical, or even more difficult when considering a dimension of possible/impossible. They are perfectly possible to learn, are objectively "just a language". But they take more work for an English speaker than some other languages due to being "more foreign/different".

Some languages are like getting ready for a 10 K run, Category 5 simply require more training, more discipline etc.

[einzelne]

This is my favorite quote from French writer Antoine Volodine (who is works as a translator from Russian and Portuguese):

JDW: Le port intérieur opens on China. What place does it occupy in your world? You have a precise knowledge of it; you are studying its language and culture. In your personal scenarios you even dream of ending your days there. Is this an exotic concession in this post-exotic world?

AV: When I was 12 or 13 years old, the first thing I bought with my childhood savings (allowances were rare in those days) was a Chinese opium pipe. I never used it, rest assured. That could have been the very beginning of a long adventure, but what opened up first in my life was what could be called a vast Russian page. That page was perused, and it is more or less closed today. The Chinese page, on the other hand, is in the course of being read, so to speak. An apprenticeship in the Chinese language requires a lifetime. I began late, too late, without having the necessary time, without method, without a teacher. Which is to say that I still will have much to do, after my death, to attain a level of honorable Mandarin.

Well, my fellow travelers, what can I say to cheer you up? We will sure find success stories "on the other side"!

[Adrianslont]

I recently stumbled across a French guy, Julien Gaudfroy, who speaks immaculate Chinese evidently. I don’t speak it myself so I have to trust the YouTube comments from Chinese people. It sure sounds great.

I found several things about him that were interesting/remarkable - he only started to learn it when he was 19, he studied 8 hours a day for 5 years, his English is also damned close to native speaker level and he trained as a classical musician which he believes helps him with languages.

Not too shabby!

He has worked in China in PR, as a tv host, restaurant owner and comedian and now lives in France again it seems.

Certainly a very focussed high achiever.

He also lists German on his LinkedIn.

Here’s one link but there are others.