Italki- A worthy investment or a waste of money?

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Le Baron
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Re: Italki- A worthy investment or a waste of money?

Postby Le Baron » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:31 pm

rdearman wrote:I did a couple of exchanges with a guy from Belgium [...] The only problem I had with him is he didn't really do corrections very well.

See, you should have chosen a French tutor. Correcting people in the usage of the sacred 'langue de Molière' is just a happy extra for such a tutor.

Btw, do people really say 'server' instead of waiter? I've never actually heard that before. 'Server, I have a fly in my soup' doesn't really have the same sort of pizazz.
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Re: Italki- A worthy investment or a waste of money?

Postby rdearman » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:33 pm

Le Baron wrote:Btw, do people really say 'server' instead of waiter? I've never actually heard that before. 'Server, I have a fly in my soup' doesn't really have the same sort of pizazz.

Americanism, I think.
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Re: Italki- A worthy investment or a waste of money?

Postby luke » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:37 pm

rdearman wrote:
Le Baron wrote:Btw, do people really say 'server' instead of waiter?

Americanism, I think.

It's good marketing. Servers serve you. Waiters make you wait.

Do they open up with, "I'll be taking care of you", on that side of the pond?
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Re: Italki- A worthy investment or a waste of money?

Postby Le Baron » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:49 pm

luke wrote:
rdearman wrote:
Le Baron wrote:Btw, do people really say 'server' instead of waiter?

Americanism, I think.

It's good marketing. Servers serve you. Waiters make you wait.

Do they open up with, "I'll be taking care of you", on that side of the pond?

Well the point of a 'waiter' was that they pretended to be musique d'ameublement, but are actually keeping their eyes and ears open to be able to appear out of nowhere at the right time. In a decent restaurant the waiters leave you alone whilst you eat, then surreptitiously observe you finishing, wait a little while then appear as if coincidentally arriving at the correct time to offer you a dessert or another drink. And even to say 'my word! Sir does have good taste!' Even though you bought the cheapest wine on the list.

I think of 'wait' as 'lie in wait' or 'ambush'. Apparently wait is equal to 'watch'. In Dutch wachtman=watchman.In German: Wächter.

We come full circle. They are basically spies.
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Re: Italki- A worthy investment or a waste of money?

Postby Sae » Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:10 pm

luke wrote:
rdearman wrote:
Le Baron wrote:Btw, do people really say 'server' instead of waiter?

Americanism, I think.

It's good marketing. Servers serve you. Waiters make you wait.

Do they open up with, "I'll be taking care of you", on that side of the pond?


Given to "take care" of somebody is also mobspeak for murdering them, I fear there could be misunderstandings...

...just don't eat the French Onion Soup, I hear it's to die for.
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Re: Italki- A worthy investment or a waste of money?

Postby BeaP » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:31 am

I've followed the link that Saim gave to the other thread, and this guy didn't get a lot of love here. I think he makes some good points, although nothing really new or groundbreaking. After watching a video of his about Lingoda, I'm pretty sure that he's criticising language teaching in general. He infiltrated an online class and made remarks about the content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBDLOv_EFWE

It's a grammar lesson (English phrasal verbs) with almost zero takeaway. It's obvious that the students hardly learned anything new, and didn't participate in a meaningful way. I'd even argue that they were just more confused and demotivated after the lesson.
The teacher himself demonstrates that everything could be learned from the internet in a much quicker and better way.

It's been a long time that I last went to a language class, so I found it quite interesting with the eyes of an experienced learner. It's obvious that you need to know what you're looking for and need to be assertive if you pay for something like this. Just booking something that sounds good and following it passively is not a good idea.

I also remembered an online class for DELE C2 I saw on youtube. It's very long, don't watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmJaIesgCXM

They're doing exercises from the Cronómetro book, and they are listening to the audio and read things together in the lesson. The oral task is fine, that might have advantages. This teacher is also googling everything, and clicking all the time. He's just complicating things with links and extra stuff instead of concentrating own how to solve the task. It's actually annoying. What a waste of time and money.
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Re: Italki- A worthy investment or a waste of money?

Postby Caromarlyse » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:22 pm

I only watched a few minutes, but I didn't really enjoy the way in which the message was conveyed.

As for the message itself, absolutely there can be bad language lessons, and the links posted by BeaP (which, again, I only watched at 2x speed and in small part) demonstrate that. I have no patience for lessons like that.

However, I really enjoy the 1:1 classes that I take online. Admittedly, it takes quite a lot of searching and perseverance, and, as has been said above, it helps to be very clear about (and articulate) what it is you want. I don't go back to anyone who wastes class time with stuff that could be done at home, nor to anyone who is clearly inexperienced at teaching the language to someone at my level, whatever that may be. However, I have found them to be great in pushing me forward further and faster than I would achieve alone. I do a lot of study on my own too, but the classes ensure I keep going and give me ideas as to what to study. I enjoy the relationship that is formed. I am often made aware of something that I didn't know I didn't know. I get corrections on things I don't realise I was doing wrong. I get positive feedback that encourages me to continue. The 1:1 format is great in allowing you to go quickly when you understand something easily, or to spend more time on something that you find more difficult. I have also found it useful to go back to several different teachers, because each will have their own strengths, and you can balance out any blind spots that any individual teacher has.
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Re: Italki- A worthy investment or a waste of money?

Postby FRAnglais1919 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:42 pm

There are benefits for beginners and low-intermediate learners in having a live tutor. The tutor can correct mistakes as they arise, as well as teach fundamental grammar and vocabulary. The YT video's criticism is better suited for intermediate learners and beyond. Take a student who already knows basic grammar in their L2. They also know the 200 most common words in the target language, just like a native. Now the student is on a quest to digest materials and soak up new words like a sponge, i.e. the “immersion” stage of learning. In this scenario there isn’t much for an italki tutor to do. They might tweak minor errors here and there. They might teach fringe vocabulary that is seldom used in daily speech. Here, I don’t see the utility of weekly hour-long sessions.

I have a wonderful online tutor who makes me work hard. I get my money’s worth every time–I write, read, and listen to lengthy episodes of things before the lesson. Then we discuss everything, as well as argue in the form of a socratic dialogue. It’s a great workout to be sure. I’ve improved somewhat over the last few months, but after each lesson I end up thinking, “this is something I could’ve learned on my own.” Even the supposed benefits of weekly conversations are dubious. I'm not sure if my speech has improved much, if at all. I enjoy the lessons anyway so I'll keep taking them.
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Re: Italki- A worthy investment or a waste of money?

Postby s_allard » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:04 pm

acorngalaxy wrote:Don't get me wrong, I like Italki, but I happened to come across videos of this YouTuber the other day:

https://youtu.be/6nP9uXVqZT8

https://youtu.be/j15g-d0Yo_8

https://youtu.be/qQc53c9Zitc

I actually found myself agreeing with him on a lot of points. I don't know if it's because he presents himself well, I don't know if I'm being influenced. All I know is that he made me think about the money spent on conversation practice. Is it a waste of money? Is it all for naught? What do you think ?


For heaven’s sake, here we go again. Along comes a snake-oil salesman calling himself Virtually Native and spouting all sorts of half-truths and derogatory statements about language teachers and all the while plugging his own book called :

Virtually Native: Learn How To Learn English - by a non-native, for the non-native

He may have some points here and there that may resonate with some of us but I consider the whole series of videos a pure waste of time and often offensive. Run, don’t walk away from this.

Now, as for online learning and conversation practice such as with Italki, the value is in how you use it. You can certainly waste your time and money but it all depends on you. If the teacher or tutor is not the right fit, then change them. You also have to look at how you are using these online resources.

I don’t use Italki myself but I use another service at least three times a week, and I would do so fives times a week if I could afford it. The reason is simple. Where else can I open my mouth and actually speak about what I want to speak about and have a native speaker correct me ?

Just today we had our first snowfall here in Montreal, and I spent 30 minutes with a tutor talking about automobile tires in Spanish. Money very well spent indeed.
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Re: Italki- A worthy investment or a waste of money?

Postby golyplot » Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:52 pm

FRAnglais1919 wrote:There are benefits for beginners and low-intermediate learners in having a live tutor. The tutor can correct mistakes as they arise, as well as teach fundamental grammar and vocabulary. The YT video's criticism is better suited for intermediate learners and beyond. Take a student who already knows basic grammar in their L2. They also know the 200 most common words in the target language, just like a native. Now the student is on a quest to digest materials and soak up new words like a sponge, i.e. the “immersion” stage of learning. In this scenario there isn’t much for an italki tutor to do. They might tweak minor errors here and there. They might teach fringe vocabulary that is seldom used in daily speech. Here, I don’t see the utility of weekly hour-long sessions.


You seem to assume that anyone who can read and listen to the TL can automatically also speak it, which is very much not correct.
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