The one language/many languages problem

[rdearman]

What colour is surprised?

Oh! I know the answer to this one! It is Carmine (Hex #960018, RGB 150, 0, 24). Now being a man I have never actually seen this colour although it is supposed to be a type of red. If I have ever seen this colour, then I would have called it Red, because it looks Red. But apparently some people (mostly females) claim to know the difference between Carmine and Red. I did find the hexadecimal representation of this colour on the Internet, and it looks... er... red? Anyway, surprised is definitely Carmine, or is bewildered Carmine and surprised Vermilion? No, no... I am defianately 100% sure that suprised is Carmine... or possibly Vermilion. Besides of them look red, so it doesn't really matter, no actual person can tell the difference between Carmine or Vermilion since they are both just red.

[Le Baron]

I just checked it to see the colour. I don't think I am colour-blind (but how would I know?). I've never mistaken the brown ball for a red in snooker; not even when watching in black & white.

[LupCenușiu]

There might not be any conclusive arguments to be made showing that more languages (even at a lower level of achievement) enables more satisfactory experiences than one or two pursued to a high level of development. Or vice-versa.

Difficulty in establishing a coherent system to quantify the level of satisfaction in personal experiences? Color me surprised...

Not exactly that. The very point of the thread for me is that gaining a stronger command over a language (or two) is actually a position of great satisfaction with regard to the access it provides, but that it requires a level of devotion and time that might not be possible when one spreads one's time and effort more thinly among many languages. This is not some foggy, inconclusive outcome, but something rather clear. The lack of clarity is when people start to possibly rationalise and revise 'satisfaction' and 'goals' to meet desires and time already spent.

What colour is surprised?

White. That should cover the entire spectrum. You get satisfaction from investing a certain amount of energy in a narrow field, with the declared intention to advance further. Some other people tackle a larger field, with less advancement. To begin with, you can compare the declared time invested...and not much else. Intensity of study, methods, personal skills and experience, and other factors can vary greatly. That's for resources spent. For outcome... that's a conversation for a long night around a fire. Nights, even. Every term can be debated, and while at some basic level is easier to agree what strong command over a language is, devil hides in the details. Some are not interested in production skills. Some not even in listening. Or just in listening. Tests can offer a frame for comparison, but again, some don't care for tests at all. You say the process of post-factum rationalization is meant to adjust relative to time and energy already spent. I'm sure this is the case for some. Not for all probably.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you trying to apply your own system of reference for satisfaction to others? Because, that will work only so far. I see your point, you made a solid case for it. And then are people like leosmith, that likes to advance a language pretty far, but already has a decent number of languages under the belt. And then we have Iversen with dozens of languages and great level in many. And then we change the register again, and see people very happy with one or two languages at advanced level, or dabbling in dozens out of curiosity.

To reiterate, I believe the conclusive arguments for few vs many languages and satisfaction you can get from using either approach are some sort of unicorns. You know you won't get them.

[Le Baron]

To reiterate, I believe the conclusive arguments for few vs many languages and satisfaction you can get from using either approach are some sort of unicorns. You know you won't get them.

Well, yes. That's why I wrote the bit you quoted.

[Tom]

My approach is primarily due to the fact that I started with language learning later in life. I'm sticking with one language. I originally considered more than one, but when I found how much time and effort is really involved in becoming "fluent," I realized that learning more than one wouldn't work for me. So I guess I'll stick with Spanish until I become advanced, or die trying. And perhaps if I'm ever satisfied enough with my progress, I'll try another language. If so, probably a romance one, in order to get the so called discount. So due to time constraints, along with a desire to be at an advanced level in Spanish, it's one language only for me, at least for now.

[einzelne]

I actually want to be convinced, even if I'm somewhat sceptical and even if I can be told: 'it's up to you, do as you like'.

If you learn languages for reading purposes, then, after a certain stage, it's quite possible to combine several languages. Once if have a firm grasp of grammar, the only thing is left is lots of reading to internalize enough vocabulary so you can read comfortably. But your will continue to discover hundreds of new words and expressions, even after several years of intensive study. Should you wait while you get to the point that you can read comfortably a vast variety of unadapted texts aimed at educated natives? I don't think so. Today, with e-readers and pop-up dictionaries, you can definitely add a new language earlier.

[Le Baron]

I used to be sniffy about just reading languages rather than being able to speak them, but really I only started Russian with reading and only mostly read, because that's all there was most of the time!

[anitarrc]

..

I have studied multiple language almost from the beginning (from I was a young teenager), and the result is that I now have have at least a dozen languages at my disposal at a level where I can have long conversations with native speakers, but not necessarily know all the idiomatic expressions or the latest slang. And I can write in maybe half a dozen more, plus I can read at least twice as many without looking words up all the time. It will be hard to convince me that you have to stick to a few languages, or that that you have to push each new language til at least C1 before you tackle the next one.

I do however have to add one caveat: you have to do a real effort in the beginning learn enough of a new language to be able at least to read it (or for some: understand a simple spoken utterance) - and for me being able to formulate sentences in my head is a crucial step. If you leave it before that it will decay fast, and the precious study time you already have will basically be wasted. However you can continue working on your other languages at the same time - you just have less time to do so. If you experience problems with interference then just do it on alternate days (or something like that).

And then you have to spend a short time regularly with the youngster to keep it alive. Only old and well-established languages can survive long dry spells as active languages (passive skills are much more resistant). But that activity doesn't have to be a fullblown conversation - just thinking or writing in a language for 5-10 minutes can keep it alive ... once you have learnt enough to do that.

Here is some REALLY good advice. I can find myself in most of what you say, although I can speak only 6 languages fluently. But I understand more and keeping it alive can be an effort.
Example: I could manage a basic conversation in Bahasa or Serbian 15 resp 25 years ago but not now because I have done sod all but read a bit here and there, noticing with delight that I still get most of Aljazeera Serbian news for example.

BUT since I don't use it at work, things rust quickly.

At work, today, I will do: German Russian proofreading (done), German Dutch proofreading (done) German Spanish translation (at it and bored) and French Portuguese, coming up - Then there are 2556 lines of German to English translation lurking there, a very boring Notified body test report.

So don't ever give me "it can't be done simultaneously as an adult". It pays my salary.

[Querneus]

What colour is surprised?

Oh! I know the answer to this one! It is Carmine (Hex #960018, RGB 150, 0, 24). Now being a man I have never actually seen this colour although it is supposed to be a type of red. If I have ever seen this colour, then I would have called it Red, because it looks Red. But apparently some people (mostly females) claim to know the difference between Carmine and Red. I did find the hexadecimal representation of this colour on the Internet, and it looks... er... red? Anyway, surprised is definitely Carmine, or is bewildered Carmine and surprised Vermilion? No, no... I am defianately 100% sure that suprised is Carmine... or possibly Vermilion. Besides of them look red, so it doesn't really matter, no actual person can tell the difference between Carmine or Vermilion since they are both just red.

Is that a Pantone colour? And is LLorg paying the fees?

[Elsa Maria]

I add languages because my needs and circumstances change. Things keep happening! And I don’t like abandoning the languages that still interest me.

I have dabbled and dropped, but I prefer to maintain even a low level if I think the language might ever become the priority again. Or if I have already accumulated books to read! I figure I can inch my way forward and then I won’t have to start from scratch when life changes yet again.

But I’m retired and my kids are grown so I am not starved for time.