Collecting Case Studies of Overcoming the Intermediate Plateau

General discussion about learning languages
Sprachprofi
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Collecting Case Studies of Overcoming the Intermediate Plateau

Postby Sprachprofi » Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:40 pm

This topic recently came up in the Polyglot Telegram channels... even as seasoned language learners we sometimes get into a rut and can't seem to move forward in our target language.

The question inspired me to write this article on how I managed to overcome the intermediate plateau in Chinese, Serbo-Croatian and Modern Greek, but I also think that it would be useful to have a collection of how others have done so - to provide ideas when we feel discouraged and stuck.

So, let's hear examples of how everyone has overcome the Intermediate Plateau!
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Le Baron
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Re: Collecting Case Studies of Overcoming the Intermediate Plateau

Postby Le Baron » Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:11 pm

I do agree with the view in your article that fluency per topic is a good strategy for increasing exposure to new vocabulary and structures, but that you don't need to be familiar with those areas to be considered 'fluent' in the language generally. Since there are plenty native speakers of languages with little more than novice-to-no specialist knowledge who can still tackle the area precisely because they have general fluency to a high degree.

There is also that when you're learning a language the focus is on understanding the language and less on being critical of the information. So taking the example mentioned, that of economics (I have a PhD centred upon it) a good portion of it, equally in the academic community, is extremely misleading and some of it just quackery. So anyone using this for language learning purposes is also being instructed in this. I suppose that's a different question and problem.

I tend to think that there is a central sort of fluency that allows you access to varying topics, but that of course you need to engage with those specialist topics to learn the vocabularies. Although the general structure of writing and speech is simply that which you'll find anywhere in the same register.
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Sprachprofi
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Re: Collecting Case Studies of Overcoming the Intermediate Plateau

Postby Sprachprofi » Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:31 pm

Le Baron wrote:So taking the example mentioned, that of economics (I have a PhD centred upon it) a good portion of it, equally in the academic community, is extremely misleading and some of it just quackery. So anyone using this for language learning purposes is also being instructed in this. I suppose that's a different question and problem.


My instruction is by Yanis Varoufakis, who loves to point out the quackery in economics. :D I fondly recall his book "Modern Political Economics" which goes over every economic theory from Aristotle to now, explaining what it says, what is useful/new about it, why it may have been invented at that particular time, and finally, why it's bullshit, or at least far removed from really existing economies. :lol: Incidentally, he recently had a very insightful take on skyrocketing energy prices.

As to your points: absolutely agree. There is some fundamental "fluency", which transfers across topics, though a major factor remains whether you've discussed the same topic before. I don't sound nearly as fluent when talking about chemistry than I do when talking about language-learning. Then again, a native speaker might not either.
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Deinonysus
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Re: Collecting Case Studies of Overcoming the Intermediate Plateau

Postby Deinonysus » Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:05 pm

I got over my French plateau when I stopped buying Assimil books in English.
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s_allard
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Re: Collecting Case Studies of Overcoming the Intermediate Plateau

Postby s_allard » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:56 pm

Two minor issues of terminology before I get to the main points. First of all, I really dislike the use of the word fluency for TL proficiency. I reserve fluency for ease of speaking. Not everybody of course agrees with this position.

The other point is the so-called intermediate plateau. I know this refers to the feeling of being in a rut, not making any progress or maybe even sliding backwards. But this is not particular to the intermediate level. This happens at all levels of proficiency.

Learning a language is not a linear process ; it’s more like a series of plateaus with breakouts from time to time. One can even get into a rut at C2. So, the more general question is how does one get out of a rut and go to the next level whether that be from A2 to B1 or B2 to C1.

In fact, I believe the most significant plateau is at the false beginner level, somewhere around A2 when people realize that learning a language is a long and difficult process. How many people even get to B2 on their own ? When I went for my Spanish CEFR test, there were around 60 people in the meeting room at the beginning of the day. We were then called by test level to go to the test rooms. By the time it got to C2, there was only one person in the room, me.

So, what can make a difference in getting out of a rut ? The suggestions from Sprachprofi are very good. I will just add two things that made a huge difference for me.

1. Every week I wrote a one-page letter in Spanish that I corrected with an online tutor before sending it to a real friend in Cuba. I did this for about six months if I recall correctly. It made a huge difference in my written Spanish because I was forced to write and be corrected every week. I should point out that my Cuban friend was astounded by my Spanish.

2. The other thing that made a huge difference in my Spanish progression was reading diligently the 515-page Mexican novel, El seductor de la patria. The first 50 pages were a bit of a slog but afterwards it was pretty much smooth sailing to the end. In fact, I think I have read the the book around twice if not three times because I enjoyed it so much. Of course I absorbed a huge amount of Spanish.

In my opinion just one good book will provide you with all the fundamentals you will need. In fact, I suggest reading the same book a couple of times to really master the content and then move on to a different book.
Last edited by s_allard on Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vish
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Re: Collecting Case Studies of Overcoming the Intermediate Plateau

Postby vish » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:08 pm

For me, the solution would be reading, reading and reading more of what I enjoy.
The minor challenge is reading material for that suitable level.
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tractor
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Re: Collecting Case Studies of Overcoming the Intermediate Plateau

Postby tractor » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:36 pm

Not giving up.
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