How much study of grammar do you do?

[einzelne]

After reaching C1+ is there need for grammar study?

Not sure about study but there's definitely need for maintenance.

[einzelne]

I just really wish "my attention span" were longer. My desire is there but my attention span does not cooperate.

How long are your sessions? What do you usually do? Why wouldn't you simply have 2 (or more sessions) during the day?

[Le Baron]

For people who don't actively like grammar study and can't work with it, I don't know that it helps to have study sessions with it. For me it's always been more like consulting a dictionary to 'make sure'. There are some things right at the beginning worth getting straight, but after that I just don't want to study grammar.
In a lot of good learning material they just pare it down to essentials and do half a page of a piece of grammar, then some usage/exercises. The best grammar book I had was Nederlands in hoofdlijjnen. Barely 70 pages and A5 format. A really bare bones grammar showing you essentials worth getting down. Then when you read/listen you hopefully recognise these and you can check some of the grammar again and that circle of learning cements it.

Compared to those French grammars like Bescherelle. With 300+ pages of all the tiresome terminology and abbreviations cod/coi; complement d'objet second; complement d'attribution; complement circonstanciel... Boring stuff. I knew how to form most of these from sheer exposure before I even saw one of those books, though I did make some mistakes. Back when I was a teenager I thought I could try to study French at university eventually, capitalise on prior knowledge, and I secured one of those grammars. I can't say I used it extensively. The French seem to think grammar is better if it is made more complicated with idiotic graphs and tree diagrams. This will just put most people off.

[MorkTheFiddle]

My first study of Spanish and French grammar's was in school, no memory of the names of the textbooks. Of Ancient Greek, the textbook JACT Reading Greek.
Wanting to write a bit in the languages, recently I began some reading and listening exercises based on the recommendatios of several members, but for Ancient Greek Introduction to Greek Prose Composition with Exercises by A. Sidgwick.
No more than 15-30 minutes a day for all three.
I would say more, but I am writing with my phone, so . . .

[einzelne]

With 300+ pages of all the tiresome terminology and abbreviations cod/coi; complement d'objet second; complement d'attribution; complement circonstanciel... Boring stuff.

Routledge has a very good series — Modern Grammar. The first part is a brief description of major grammar points the second part (Functions — see attachement) contextualises it — what kind of grammar structures you need to use if you want to express doubt, to describe events etc. I find it quite useful, since for me this is ultimately what grammar is — a meta-information essential to get your message across. That's why I could never understand why people dread about it, since grammar is your ally, not your enemy.

[tractor]

I find this kind of questions hard to answer, because what do we mean by "study of grammar"?
– Memorizing grammar rules?
– Learning conjugation and declension tables by heart?
– Doing exercises in a grammar workbook?
– Analysing sentences?
– Reading an introductory grammar?
– Looking up things in a reference grammar?
– Readning an academic treatise on grammar?
– Doing FSI type drills?
– Using a language course that introduce grammar gradually (like Assiimil, Nature Method etc.)?

[galaxyrocker]

I study grammar a lot. I enjoy it, and find the linguistic aspects of syntax to be super interesting. So I usually try to get a grammar workbook and start right away or follow a textbook that has some decent grammar practice. Even when I was trying to do things more nature method style, I still loved reading about the grammar as it just made things 'click' way faster and meant I was able to get the most out of my immersion.

[Carmody]

einzelne » Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:36 am


Routledge has a very good series — Modern Grammar. The first part is a brief description of major grammar points the second part (Functions — see attachement) contextualises it — what kind of grammar structures you need to use if you want to express doubt, to describe events etc. I find it quite useful, since for me this is ultimately what grammar is — a meta-information essential to get your message across. That's why I could never understand why people dread about it, since grammar is your ally, not your enemy.

einzeine, yes I agree when you say:

grammar is your ally, not your enemy

I truly want it as an ally and good friend. However, it doesn't cooperate with me when I reach out to become friends it more often than not lifts up its nose and walks away from me. I truly want it as an ally but it truly pushes me away with cold indifference.

Which Routledge grammar are you referring to?
Essential French Grammar as shown here?
https://www.routledge.com/Essential-French-Grammar/Thacker-dAngelo/p/book/9781138338180

[einzelne]

Which Routledge grammar are you referring to?

This one.

As for grammar, it needs the right approach. And patience. If you persist, it will yield.

[Xenops]

I study grammar a lot. I enjoy it, and find the linguistic aspects of syntax to be super interesting. So I usually try to get a grammar workbook and start right away or follow a textbook that has some decent grammar practice. Even when I was trying to do things more nature method style, I still loved reading about the grammar as it just made things 'click' way faster and meant I was able to get the most out of my immersion.

Ah, I believe I read on your blog that Japanese is a temptation for you? That makes sense.

As a constructed language creator, I do look for and read about weird grammatical features--but only if there are example sentences, and sometimes I can't even parse those out. As many times as I read about ergativity, all I could tell you "well, you know how in Japanese they mark subjects and objects? Yeah...Basque marks different things". Try as I might, I have a hard time deciphering linguist treatises, and often resort to Wikipedia pages.

In regards to language learning, I admit that I struggle with Japanese grammar more than anything. I keep looking for English equivalents to concepts, and sometimes there aren't any. I have to let go of my English mindset be open to the Japanese mindset, and I'd argue it's like trying to understand philosophical concepts. I have to let go of my reasoning and just accept some things.