How much study of grammar do you do?

General discussion about learning languages
User avatar
Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1747
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:00 am
Location: NYC, NY
Languages: English (N)
French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
x 3395

How much study of grammar do you do?

Postby Carmody » Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:02 pm

I am curious how much study of grammar people do.

I imagine the answer depends on what level one is at. So an A1 level would have more grammar study than a C1.

But how much of your time is proportionately given to grammar as opposed to reading, oral input, and writing?

After reaching C1+ is there need for grammar study?

And how did you learn your grammar? From books, software, Kwiziq, YouTube or some other source?

Many thanks.
1 x

User avatar
Le Baron
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3510
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:14 pm
Location: Koude kikkerland
Languages: English (N), fr, nl, de, eo, Sranantongo,
Maintaining: es, swahili.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18796
x 9389

Re: How much study of grammar do you do?

Postby Le Baron » Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:30 pm

According to this poll from September 6 the majority of respondents focus on grammar throughout study.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 14&t=18471

For myself I don't spend a huge amount of time on grammar as compared to input/immersion, but I never shy away from actively consulting grammar explanations when I'm stuck or unclear. To not do so is self-sabotage.
4 x

User avatar
luke
Brown Belt
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:09 pm
Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
x 3631

Re: How much study of grammar do you do?

Postby luke » Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:10 pm

Le Baron wrote:According to this poll from September 6 the majority of respondents focus on grammar throughout study.

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 14&t=18471

You've made me realize I left out an important option:

[] Less than I should.

I was sick when grammar as a subject was introduced and never had a teacher properly seduce me into its study.

It's only later here as an adult that I'm realizing that I probably need to study it to the point that I'm objectively good at it and then improve some more, as that's the only way to get really good.

Most of my grammar study, as far as time spent, isn't grammar, per se, but structured FSI drills. These tend to use linguistic rather than grammatical terms and focus on semantics. I rather like this approach. There seems to be less like rules, (which have exceptions) and more like objective guidelines.

I may be at a high intermediate level (B2ish), but I intend to study a more advanced grammar book and become aware of more nuance, especially on language features that are subtler.
5 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

User avatar
Le Baron
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3510
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:14 pm
Location: Koude kikkerland
Languages: English (N), fr, nl, de, eo, Sranantongo,
Maintaining: es, swahili.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18796
x 9389

Re: How much study of grammar do you do?

Postby Le Baron » Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:04 pm

luke wrote:Most of my grammar study, as far as time spent, isn't grammar, per se, but structured FSI drills. These tend to use linguistic rather than grammatical terms and focus on semantics. I rather like this approach. There seems to be less like rules, (which have exceptions) and more like objective guidelines.

It may well be an approach more people find congenial. I don't much care for very technical grammar explanations. It's not that I don't understand them, but it feels like reading an author who writes bad prose. There are better ways of teaching grammar than just piling up a lot of terminology and rules.
4 x

User avatar
Chameleon
White Belt
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:45 am
Languages: Native: English
Learning: German
x 55

Re: How much study of grammar do you do?

Postby Chameleon » Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:41 pm

The only explicit grammar I actively (seeked out? sook out? Maybe I should learn English :lol: ) was modal particles. But sometimes I come across explanations in my input as well - for example, they discussed the difference between "Worte" and "Wörter" in the Easy German Podcast, among other subtle differences that other learners ask them about.

Other than that, there was a short period where I spent some time reading slowly, focusing on the form of each sentence. That was my form of grammar study. It changed the way I processed the language. Before doing that, I would probably process a sentence like this...

"In einem der umliegenden Häuser schloss jemand die Fensterläden, und auf der anderen Seite des Platzes spielten ein paar Kinder zwischen den Stühlen eines Restaurants, bis der Kellner sie wegscheuchte."

...something like this:

"In ('a' bucket) ('of the' bucket) umliegenden Häuser schloss jemand die Fensterläden, und auf ('the' bucket) ('anders' bucket) Seite ('of the' bucket) Platzes spielten ein paair Kinder zwischen ('the' bucket) Stühlen ('of a' bucket) ('Restaurant' bucket), bis ('the' bucket) Kellner sie wegscheuchte."

As if the gender of the words didn't exist, as if cases for nouns didn't exist (for pronouns I could acquire cases automatically though, maybe because English also has cases for pronouns...?). After that though, it wasn't a problem.
2 x

User avatar
TopDog_IK
Yellow Belt
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:21 am
Languages: English (N), German (B2/C1)
x 79

Re: How much study of grammar do you do?

Postby TopDog_IK » Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:38 pm

I did a bit of traditional learning very heavy on grammar my first couple months of learning German, but thankfully I stopped caring about grammar once I began an immersion-first approach to learning. 99% of what I know now about grammar came from pattern recognition through immersion. I forgot all those grammar charts and tables long ago.. they were totally useless to me.
3 x

User avatar
Fortheo
Green Belt
Posts: 387
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:03 pm
Languages: English (N), French (?) Russian (beginner)
x 911

Re: How much study of grammar do you do?

Postby Fortheo » Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:33 am

If I'm trying to improve in a language, I will try to always do at least 15 minutes of grammar drills a day. If I'm comfortable with my level in a language, I tend to drop grammar and just focus on reading, listening and conversing. Honestly, though, I believe grammar study is extremely important and I'd like to do more, but my attention span can't take long sessions of grammar.
4 x

User avatar
Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1747
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:00 am
Location: NYC, NY
Languages: English (N)
French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
x 3395

Re: How much study of grammar do you do?

Postby Carmody » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:57 am

Fortheo » Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:33 pm

If I'm trying to improve in a language, I will try to always do at least 15 minutes of grammar drills a day. If I'm comfortable with my level in a language, I tend to drop grammar and just focus on reading, listening and conversing. Honestly, though, I believe grammar study is extremely important and I'd like to do more, but my attention span can't take long sessions of grammar.


Your mention of " Honestly, though, I believe grammar study is extremely important and I'd like to do more, but my attention span can't take long sessions of grammar." pretty well describes my situation. I just really wish "my attention span" were longer. My desire is there but my attention span does not cooperate.
2 x

User avatar
luke
Brown Belt
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:09 pm
Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
x 3631

Re: How much study of grammar do you do?

Postby luke » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:15 am

Carmody wrote:Your mention of "Honestly, though, I believe grammar study is extremely important and I'd like to do more, but my attention span can't take long sessions of grammar." pretty well describes my situation. I just really wish "my attention span" were longer. My desire is there but my attention span does not cooperate.

I'm curious if French has a series sort of like Gramatica del uso de español. It has short lessons. One page is teaching language and another page is exercises. Everything is in the target language. There are A1/A2, B1/B2, and C1/C2 books.

With a course like this, reading and understanding the teaching language can be separated from the exercises themselves to make even shorter sessions.

On the same topic, I'm curious if the normal recommendation would be to start with a less challenging book so everything is clearly understood before moving on. E.G., if one is at B1 level, start with the A1/A2 book anyway to start an easy, low time commitment habit. Maybe it's personal and some would find "easy" to be "boring". For me, grammar has to be "easy" to be "useful".
5 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

User avatar
Carmody
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1747
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:00 am
Location: NYC, NY
Languages: English (N)
French (B1)
Language Log: http://tinyurl.com/zot7wrs
x 3395

Re: How much study of grammar do you do?

Postby Carmody » Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:49 pm

Luke
For me, grammar has to be "easy" to be "useful".
With which I totally agree. Thank you.
2 x


Return to “General Language Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Sizen and 2 guests