The perils of 'international English'

[PeterMollenburg]

French:
Le Jogging (Not the act of jogging, but the trousers you wear when you go Footing!) Footing = Jogging.
Pressing .... = Dry Cleaning.

Dutch. A drink in a tall glass (called a slim Jim glass in UK) = 'longdrink'. Also one of my biggest bugbears, the use of 'total-loss' used as a noun to mean a right-off: 'Het is een total-loss'. Or even as one word: totalloss.

Horrid.

Horrid alright, I completely agree. However I find myself almost laughing at the Dutch and thinking it's some kind of ridiculous attempt at being trendy/hip/internationally aware = cool. Yes it does annoy me, but... In French it really annoys me. French adopting English words just sounds plain stupid (imo). Dutch seems to pull it off (sort of - mind you 'een total-loss'. Wtf? ) given shared Germanic roots, while despite the fact English and French share a hell of a lot of vocabulary, the pronunciation is, well, rather different and, like any language the French do have the ability to use their own new or existing words.

I noticed the use of the word 'cluster' a lot in French regarding reports on Covid around contact-tracing. That downright s**t me off. I mean, really? This is one reason I am not a fan of the world globalising in general, as it lends to the dominant language influencing others in unimpressive ways. Cluster, while an anglicism has likely been in use for some time, but not in this context. Well, I'm a bit of purist I guess and living in this globalised world is going to be a disappointment in some aspects. This is where protectionism is of value and I feel the European countries ought to look to Québec for guidance (if they were that way inclined). I've learned that 'sightseeing' in Norwegian is 'sightseeing', said in a completely English way. I feel the Norwegians can be even more keen to adopt English words sometimes than the Dutch.... rant ranty McRant...

[jeff_lindqvist]

- Concert. Only the Icelandic had to invent a native word for this: They call it "tónleikar".

In Irish, ceol (music) and coirm (feast, banquet, party) form the word ceolchoirm which means concert.

[tungemål]

Dutch. A drink in a tall glass (called a slim Jim glass in UK) = 'longdrink'. Also one of my biggest bugbears, the use of 'total-loss' used as a noun to mean a right-off: 'Het is een total-loss'. Or even as one word: totalloss.

What does it mean? I don't understand a "right-off".

I feel the Norwegians can be even more keen to adopt English words sometimes than the Dutch.... rant ranty McRant...

Well, yes and no. Norwegian also often takes up calques from the English one, which is sometimes easy since the languages have the same root, or makes new constructs. The biggest problem with English loanwords, I think, is that the pronunciation/spelling is so off. Sometimes a Norwegian spelling is adopted, but it is often resisted like for instance when it was suggested to write "pub" and "bacon" as "pøbb" and "beiken".

I notice that young people (which means people younger than me) use expressions taken from English, but translated. Two examples that are commonly used:

Det suger - "it sucks", with the meaning that something is bad. With variations that would've been censored on the forum.
Jeg vet - "I know". In this case the grammar is altered, since I don't think the verb can be used without an object in Norwegian - you'd have to say "Jeg vet det". But it's used as an emphatic affirmation(?) like this:

- That's crazy.
- I know!

And to tie the post to the opening post: in Norwegian news "Long Covid" was used, but also "Langvarig Covid" which was probably more common.

[Dragon27]

What does it mean? I don't understand a "right-off".

A write-off, probably.

[jeffers]

It makes perfect sense for a country to use a foreign word to describe something brought in from that foreign country. So, to use some of the examples mentioned above, Americans got the legumes in question from Spanish-speakers and so called them "garbonzo beans", while the English got them from somewhere else (small chickens perhaps?) and call them "chick peas".

I suspect most words for commonly used modern tech are international words. Hindi has incorportated computer, laptop, keyboard, mobile, etc, wholesale. Sometimes languages adapt at the same time as they adopt, so French often takes on English words but uses them in their own way, like the example of "jogging" mentioned above. Another example I can think of off the top of my head is that a dinner jacket is called a "smoking" in French, as well as in German. Walkie-talkies exist in France, but they're referred to as a "talkie-walkie", and a web-site is a "site-web". I actually quite like the fact that when English words are used in French they are "Frenchified". Nothing is surprising or unusual here. What language doesn't have loanwords? English vocabulary is reckoned to be 45% French. Modern spoken Hindi is made up of words from Sanskrit roots and words from Persian roots, with a smattering of English.

For the curious, most often the word used for "keyboard" in Hindi is कीबोर्ड (keyboard), but it is also possible to use कुंजीपटल (kunji patal). Kunji means "key" and a patal is a board (somethink like a tabletop?). I quite like kunjipatal for keyboard, but I suspect a lot of speakers would be confused if you used the word in place of simply saying keyboard with the proper Hindi pronunciation.

I am more bothered by language purists in some countries who try to push a more native version of a word even though the vast majority of speakers are happy using the adopted word. I suppose I am bohered partly because in India this often comes from a particular political and social prejudice, the idea that Hindi should be "pure" and that purity somehow means they should only use words derived from Sanskrit. I had a student in India who was a language purist, so I asked him what the शुद्ध (shuddh, pure) word would be for बाज़ार (bazaar, derived from Persian). He thought for a brief few seconds, and replied मार्केट (market), another commonly used Hindi word, but obviously not from Sanskrit! In fact, there is a rarely used Hindi word for market which does come from Sanskrit, हाट (haat), but it is one of those words that only appears when someone is trying to sound posh or mysterious.

[Le Baron]

What does it mean? I don't understand a "right-off".

A write-off, probably.

Correct. I have failed myself.

[tungemål]

So what's a write-off? Are you talking about your tax papers?

[jeffers]

So what's a write-off? Are you talking about your tax papers?

That's not far off, as I understand it. When something is damaged such that it can be counted as a loss, and therefore potentially used for reducing the taxes of a person or business, it is described as a write-off. More commonly this is used as a metaphor for something or someone who has become completely worthless.

[jeff_lindqvist]

"Write-off" in popular media:

[Le Baron]

So what's a write-off? Are you talking about your tax papers?

In my comparison sense it is commonly used when you crash a car and it's deemed irreparable and completely trashed and lost. That's what the Dutch use 'totalloss' for.