What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

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What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

Learn Vocabulary
5
11%
Learn Grammar
9
20%
Listen
5
11%
Read
4
9%
Write
0
No votes
Converse
1
2%
Some combination of the above
17
39%
Other
3
7%
 
Total votes: 44

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What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

Postby leosmith » Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:10 pm

I was quite surprised over in ye olde Krashin thread that several members here like to start their studies with grammar. So that got me curious – what’s the very first thing you like to learn when you start a new language? To be clear, I don’t want to include “learning about the language”. Also, since a lot of us start with pronunciation/alphabet, let’s exclude that too. Please vote and elaborate below if you would like.
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Re: What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

Postby einzelne » Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:15 pm

A combination which definitely doesn't include conversation and writing in the beginning. But I would include some artificial 'production' (reading out loud, shadowing, repeating the sentences not looking into the text) even if I don't care about speaking.
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Re: What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

Postby Odair » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:29 am

Study a textbook.
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Re: What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

Postby TopDog_IK » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:38 am

Learn the most frequent 2,500 words via SRS.

If you know 2,500 words and start watching children's shows you will have better comprehension than someone who knows a bunch of grammar rules but has very little vocab.
2 x

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Re: What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

Postby Yunus39 » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:48 am

It depends.

Method 1: (living languages among native speakers) I do a bit of a "silent phase" with a native speaker. We use pictures and they give me vocab for the images, eventually fleshing it out to sentences. I record our time together and review that with the pictures. They will ask me questions in the TL, and I'll point to the right pictures/objects, etc.

Method 2 (dead languages, not among native speakers). I will do a lot of repetition and review of lexical chunks with audio and reading. I'll work on vocab lists.
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Re: What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:16 am

It depends, and that makes it "some combination of the above".
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Re: What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

Postby galaxyrocker » Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:49 am

TopDog_IK wrote: you will have better comprehension than someone who knows a bunch of grammar rules but has very little vocab.


Or you do both, as I do, and have even better comprehension! Though I do mostly focus on grammar, and the start reading and get the vocab as I need from that.
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Re: What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

Postby BeaP » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:26 pm

It's been a long time since I last started to learn a new language, but I'll answer with what I would do.

I'd try to find a good textbook that includes 'some combination of the above'. I know 'learning about the language' is excluded in the poll, but learning about the country, the people and the traditions is essential for me. From the very beginning I'm interested in typical things, that might not even exist elsewhere and therefore don't have a name: concepts, social rules, products, food, tools, important brands, anything.

Once I saw a textbook that included very long sections on the country, in the first 5 units in L1 with some words in L2, from then on in L2. I remember I found it very interesting and motivating, and I'm always drawn to those resources that help me travel in this way. I do see the advantages of frequency lists, but I personally wouldn't be able to learn them unless someone payed for it. Passion is very important for me in language learning (as a hobby), so the first thing I do is invoke the passion that stems out of curiosity.
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Re: What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

Postby Cavesa » Sat Sep 10, 2022 6:14 pm

The first unit of a coursebook and I prefer those, that really focus on grammar a lot. So, I checked the combination option. But yes, I learn grammar right from the start and consider it an excellent way saving tons of time, tons of confusion, tons of fossilised mistakes, and letting me profit from all the rest right from the start.

Why are you so suprised many of us start with grammar right away? It is an obvious choice to learn the typical unit 1 stuff. Like how to put together a simple sentence in a present tense.

Especially for the more logically thinking minds, grammar as the priority or as a well represented part of the mix is the obvious choice. I have no doubts that people naturally relying more on memorisation or observation can choose differently and profit (and I often admire them), but a large part of population has no reason to avoid normal grammar learning. Perhaps this wouldn't even be an issue, if half the language teaching industry wasn't trying to build business on "grammar bad" and "grammar boring, learn with us without grammar" :-D

Really, I am just surprised so many people still pay so much attention to Krashen and Krashenites at all. Yeah, tons of input are great. But avoiding grammar simply leads very often to a disaster, and a normal textbook is the shortcut to more interesting input and a form of independence from tutoring. And yes, you should go from easier input to harder, but people are really overthinking the n+1 thing and setting themselves up for a failure, or at least for spending more time judging the level of stuff instead of actually using it.

Yeah, Krashen was probably new and brought something to language learning ages ago,and his ideas are nice to hear about and consider briefly at some point. But I have simply no clue, why there is such a passion and so many discussions about it. Very few other names are that known. I have yet to meet someone at a solid level, who hadn't been actively learning grammar, especially at the beginning. And I've seen it many times, that the approaches avoiding grammar tend to leave learners confused and inefficient, and neanderthalian.

Diversity is good, I am all for various approaches for various learners. But the grammar bashing, textbook bashing, and other forms of the "let's spit on the more bookish kids, just like we did back in primary school" attitude should stop. The pendulum has really swung too far from the other extreme in the last decade.
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Re: What’s the first thing you do (not including learning pronunciation/alphabet)?

Postby einzelne » Sat Sep 10, 2022 6:37 pm

Cavesa wrote:But I have simply no clue, why there is such a passion and so many discussions about it.


Oh, that's one is easy. Because he promises fluency without sweat — just read, listen, and absorb and sooner or later your receptive skills will be transformed into active ones. It's like a fad diet — shred you pounds and see your six pack grow without counting calories and lying on the couch.
3 x


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