Inferring New Vocabulary from Context in Novels - Your Experience?

[Lawyer&Mom]

@uncertaingoblin, have you ever tried reading without looking anything up? Just as an experiment? Try it, you might learn to love it.

[uncertaingoblin]

@uncertaingoblin, have you ever tried reading without looking anything up? Just as an experiment? Try it, you might learn to love it.

I have read two novels, where I looked almost nothing up (but slipped up a couple of times and grabbed a dictionary.)
They were 358 and 374 pages long, and they were written for that 10-13 year old range, I think that's about the equivalent level to the first Harry Potter book, if I'm not mistaken. What I loved was the immersion in the language, I got to use the language and not break it up by looking at English definitions, trying instead to figure out new words or notice them, which I enjoyed. I did on occasion find that I cracked and looked up some words, but I mostly kept to my rule. I think I looked up less than ten words between both novels.
What I didn't love was that I felt my progression wasn't as quick, and that I came out of these two novels feeling like I hadn't really learned any new words. I also really didn't love the novels, they weren't nearly as interesting as adult fiction. Since reading these two I have boosted my vocabulary a fair bit, and it's my goal for my next book after the one I'm currently on to read without any lookups at all. I hope that by reading a more interesting book, it will give me a better experience with it. A big part of the appeal of non-lookup extensive reading is that it is much more accessible than extensive reading with lookups, I mean, I can pick it up and put it down more easily, I don't have to set up anything in order to do it. I don't need my phone or computer with me to do lookups. It's just me and the book. That's absolutely worth a hit to the speed at which I learn, but, how much of a hit is it, I wonder.

[luke]

I think there's some aspect of personality and goals in the different "new vocabulary in novels" camps.

As a child I went through both phases: Using a dictionary to look up unknown words and a different phase of "using the context". They both worked.

My learning experience with a foreign language is tiny compared to learning my native language and I want to try an extensive "using the context" experiment, but it will require a period where the "gains" aren't as quantifiable, but hopefully will be there nonetheless.

What am I saying? Running some statistics on using Cien años de soledad, which is a book of about 450 pages that most native speakers would consider challenging for a variety of reasons, including vocabulary. There is a commemorative edition of the book that includes glosses of persons, places, and words - vocabulary - for native speakers.

Doing some quick math. I've covered about 70% of the book intensively and have created about 1000 distinct vocabulary cards (2000 with the back sides). I've studied about 30 minutes a day for 9 months on the deck. That's about 140 hours just on the Anki piece. More than 140 hours if we were to add in the time to create the cards.

I'm thinking at some point I will extensively read the author, but even now, there is a sense of satisfaction that I have close to 100% comprehension of what I've studied intensively. For me and this challenging author, I think more intensive study will pave the way for a later extensive approach.

I'm thinking of an analogy. Are you ready to start flying? If so, extensive reading is the way to go. If you feel like the plane still needs work, intensive study may make the plane less scary when it finally lifts off.

[einzelne]

I also really didn't love the novels, they weren't nearly as interesting as adult fiction.

Just read things you're genuinely interested in. There's zero differences a typical YA novel and a novel written for adults (I'm not talking about high-brow, modernist or experimental novels) when it comes to grammar and vocab density.

[uncertaingoblin]

I also really didn't love the novels, they weren't nearly as interesting as adult fiction.

Just read things you're genuinely interested in. There's zero differences a typical YA novel and a novel written for adults (I'm not talking about high-brow, modernist or experimental novels) when it comes to grammar and vocab density.

While I wouldn't say there was an enormous difference between the YA books I've read and the Adult Fiction there certainly wasn't zero difference. While I'm on the topic I found I would prefer to read more difficult books that are more interesting than I would easy books where I don't have to look much or anything up, so, I'll agree that reading things you're interested in is good advice.

[Beli Tsar]

@uncertaingoblin, have you ever tried reading without looking anything up? Just as an experiment? Try it, you might learn to love it.

I have read two novels, where I looked almost nothing up (but slipped up a couple of times and grabbed a dictionary.)
They were 358 and 374 pages long, and they were written for that 10-13 year old range, I think that's about the equivalent level to the first Harry Potter book, if I'm not mistaken. What I loved was the immersion in the language, I got to use the language and not break it up by looking at English definitions, trying instead to figure out new words or notice them, which I enjoyed. I did on occasion find that I cracked and looked up some words, but I mostly kept to my rule. I think I looked up less than ten words between both novels.
What I didn't love was that I felt my progression wasn't as quick, and that I came out of these two novels feeling like I hadn't really learned any new words.

Is there a place for doing both? There's a need to learn vocabulary, and that is done better by some mix of intensive reading and active study (intensive reading reinforced by Anki is very powerful). But there is also a need to develop fluency, natural reading speed, and to get used to large quantities of the language, something you cannot do by intensive reading.

So, if you know that you are taking on, say, 10 words a day by more intensive methods, is there a place for just picking up a relatively easy book and reading as best you can/re-reading something you've read before/using parallel text to get you through something fast?

I also find a mix like that helps simultaneously make progress while avoiding boredom.

[Chameleon]

Did you find that you learned some new vocabulary, or did you find it didn't do anything?

Yeah, I've learned the vast majority of my vocabulary through extensive listening and reading.

Did you enjoy it more or less than when you looked up unknown words while reading?

I can't say for sure since I've never done intensive reading. As long as extensive reading is effective though, I can't imagine intensive reading being more enjoyable for me.

If you think it can work, what level of comprehension do you think is necessary?

Ideally, you should already know 98%+ of the words. 95% is doable, but painful and slow.