Decision guide: learning two languages at once

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Re: Decision guide: learning two languages at once

Postby vish » Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:17 am

So if I am a false beginner in one, and a beginner in another - would that mix work ?
That's French (false beginner) and Sanskrit (beginner).
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Andreas-Hinkel
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Re: Decision guide: learning two languages at once

Postby Andreas-Hinkel » Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:59 pm

Bumping this thread, I actually have a similar question to the post directly above mine, and something that seems to have been touched upon generally in this thread.

At what point can you safely pick up a second language to learn without it being to the detriment of the first, or even to get to a point where you can maintain the first language while picking up the second.

I started learning German a few months ago and would say I'm still very much in the A1 area. Taking my time and really looking to build a strong base. However, I've recently been really taken by the notion of visiting the Balkans in the summer and would love to be able to speak some of the language while I'm there.
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Re: Decision guide: learning two languages at once

Postby Irena » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:11 pm

Andreas-Hinkel wrote:At what point can you safely pick up a second language to learn without it being to the detriment of the first, or even to get to a point where you can maintain the first language while picking up the second.

Probably when you're satisfied with your current level in the old language and feel that you no longer need to improve in it (at least not for the time being). And then you still need to allocate time for language maintenance, or else accept (possibly significant) deterioration.

Andreas-Hinkel wrote:I started learning German a few months ago and would say I'm still very much in the A1 area. Taking my time and really looking to build a strong base. However, I've recently been really taken by the notion of visiting the Balkans in the summer and would love to be able to speak some of the language while I'm there.

I don't think this is a good idea. I mean, sure, you can learn some common phrases in the Balkan language of your choice, but if you make any sort of serious attempt to actually learn the language, your German is likely to suffer. That said, if you have a ton of time for language learning (say, 20 hours per week or more), then I suppose it might make sense to give it a shot and see how it goes.
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Re: Decision guide: learning two languages at once

Postby Sae » Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:37 pm

Andreas-Hinkel wrote:Bumping this thread, I actually have a similar question to the post directly above mine, and something that seems to have been touched upon generally in this thread.

At what point can you safely pick up a second language to learn without it being to the detriment of the first, or even to get to a point where you can maintain the first language while picking up the second.

I started learning German a few months ago and would say I'm still very much in the A1 area. Taking my time and really looking to build a strong base. However, I've recently been really taken by the notion of visiting the Balkans in the summer and would love to be able to speak some of the language while I'm there.


I think it depends on you, what you're capable of, what time and attention you can give and so on.

But for me, I would rather have a good foundation in one language before I start another, because what'll happen with the new language is that it it goes to steal your attention and your older language needs to be in a position where you can take some of the attention away but also still have time and focus to maintain it and build on it. This may also slow your progress.

However, how it effects your old language is also mitigated by how much time, energy and focus you have.

From where you are now, I know I would find it too early for me. It was about a year between starting Vietnamese and Mongolian for me, but then it would have been earlier, because I had started with Tuvan but my priorities changed. And I am finding my Vietnamese has become secondary to my Mongolian, but I know Vietnamese grammar, I know how it works, how to read it and speak it, what I don't have is enough vocabulary, practice and input, or at least for where I want to be.
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Re: Decision guide: learning two languages at once

Postby Le Baron » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:10 pm

Irena wrote:That said, if you have a ton of time for language learning (say, 20 hours per week or more), then I suppose it might make sense to give it a shot and see how it goes.

Even 'that said', +/-20 hours a week, at roughly 2.5 - 3 hours a day is still peanuts for actually learning just one language. Aside from all the motivational stuff of 15-minutes-a-day... better 10 minutes well-spent than an hour of boredom type of advice, the daunting fact is that one has to really sink oneself into a language to really get learning it. And if someone is splitting that time up between one, two or three extra additions... well.

It's one of the reasons I can't make sense of the view that someone could be e.g. 'Russian A2' then also list maybe: 'Japanese, A1/beginner' and 'Portuguese A1/beginner' and maybe even a few more, and ever imagine that Russian is going to flourish any time soon.
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Re: Decision guide: learning two languages at once

Postby Irena » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:47 pm

Le Baron wrote:
Irena wrote:That said, if you have a ton of time for language learning (say, 20 hours per week or more), then I suppose it might make sense to give it a shot and see how it goes.

Even 'that said', +/-20 hours a week, at roughly 2.5 - 3 hours a day is still peanuts for actually learning just one language. Aside from all the motivational stuff of 15-minutes-a-day... better 10 minutes well-spent than an hour of boredom type of advice, the daunting fact is that one has to really sink oneself into a language to really get learning it. And if someone is splitting that time up between one, two or three extra additions... well.

It depends on how much of a hurry you're in. ~20 hours per week will translate into ~1000 per year. That's probably B2 level, though it'll depend on both the language and the learner, of course. If your goal is something like "B2 in five years" (which isn't particularly impressive, but neither is it anything to scoff at), then 4-5 hours per week should do the trick.

Le Baron wrote:It's one of the reasons I can't make sense of the view that someone could be e.g. 'Russian A2' then also list maybe: 'Japanese, A1/beginner' and 'Portuguese A1/beginner' and maybe even a few more, and ever imagine that Russian is going to flourish any time soon.

Yeah, I always wonder about those. If the person is actively learning all those languages, then yeah, it's probably not very efficient. But it may just be that the person dabbled in all those languages at some point and is currently learning only one of them or none.
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Re: Decision guide: learning two languages at once

Postby Le Baron » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:56 pm

Irena wrote:It depends on how much of a hurry you're in. ~20 hours per week will translate into ~1000 per year. That's probably B2 level, though it'll depend on both the language and the learner, of course. If your goal is something like "B2 in five years" (which isn't particularly impressive, but neither is it anything to scoff at), then 4-5 hours per week should do the trick.

Yes of course I'm not one to hurry anyone, time is good and there's not always a rush. In general though - and for the person not to feel 'stuck' - there has to be some usability around the 2-3 year mark or it feels like it's never happening.

4-5 hours a week is somewhat different. At the top-end, assuming the learner is dedicated enough to also do Sundays, this is 35 hours a week. Almost a full-time job!

edit - just to note that my tired brain read 4-5 hours A DAY and transformed it into a 35-hour week! But okay, I think 4-5 hours a day is normal for getting things moving.
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Re: Decision guide: learning two languages at once

Postby Serpent » Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:13 pm

We have this wiki article too.
Andreas-Hinkel wrote:I started learning German a few months ago and would say I'm still very much in the A1 area. Taking my time and really looking to build a strong base. However, I've recently been really taken by the notion of visiting the Balkans in the summer and would love to be able to speak some of the language while I'm there.
When it comes to travel, I say go for it. Unless you're going on a package tour you absolutely need to learn some basics, including how to pronounce place names.
I think a lot of learners get discouraged when they accidentally insert a word from a different language (and especially can't remember it in their strongest language). But honestly that's no big deal. Don't be embarrassed if this happens in class. Sometimes you don't remember L1 words, but that's no reason to stop learning all languages. :twisted: You can't skip this phase when learning to switch between languages.
Andreas-Hinkel wrote:At what point can you safely pick up a second language to learn without it being to the detriment of the first, or even to get to a point where you can maintain the first language while picking up the second.
Ideally it's when you can use L2 to learn L3. See if you can get a German-BCMS dictionary (assuming that's the language you'll be learning). To maintain your motivation you can also explore the German loan words in your new language. I remember that Radioclare has mentioned some in her posts (which also show what it takes to learn Croatian or another Slavic language, and how much even basic knowledge can help). You'll get a new perspective on cases too and maybe the German ones will seem less daunting now. If you have any interest in linguistics, this is a good time to learn about the Balkan Sprachbund. Are you going mostly to the Slavic-speaking countries or also Romania, Albania?

The tricky thing about travelling is that you are going to be very excited about your new language. Sometimes a single word makes a huge difference. Since you want to continue learning German, make some plans for when your trip is over, maybe go to a meetup or order some books/materials. You can definitely find some opportunities to use German during your trip as well, especially if you plan in advance.
Don't make big decisions while still travelling. Unless you collect language learning materials, don't buy too many and be prepared to resell/give them away later. Get some multilingual materials if you can. Maybe get some books in German if you come across unique stuff you won't find elsewhere.
You will probably be tempted to travel to the area again and continue learning the language, and that's great but be sure to take some time to focus on your German.

When I'm in France I get curious about French despite disliking it :lol:
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Re: Decision guide: learning two languages at once

Postby Lisa » Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:39 pm

You don't have to decide to give up the one; try and see if you have interference or it slows you down. Personally I just don't seem to be able to be excited about multiple languages at the same time. I've tried to start a second language while working on another, but my passion and motivation shifts to the new language; when I have some time to study, I'll pick the one that is exciting and compelling, whatever my intentions might have been.

If you put one on hold for a while, yes, you'll forget stuff in that language; but in my experience of not-even-A1 levels, some bits stick and it's much easier to pick up later then it was to learn the first time. There's nothing more fun than being understood in a foreign language by locals who don't speak your NL, even if you only know 10 words.
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Re: Decision guide: learning two languages at once

Postby Iversen » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:42 pm

Its funny with people. My own sister eats just one kind of yoghurt, one kind of chocolate etc., whereas I systematically want to try another kind than the one I tried last time. The only things that should stay the same are those I don't want to think too much about - like for instance which room my bed is located in or what I earn this month. My ball point pens should also stay on the table and not disappear from the face of the Earth. And it's the same with languages: I accept that I may have to stick to one language if I'm visiting a place abroad, and then I make that into a virtue by showing that I can communicate entirely in that language for a week or so. Being abroad is ample compensation for the linguistic monotony. But at home I would be bored to death if I just had to study just one language on a given day - which doesn't prevent me from watching subtitles in Danish or reading my Danish newspaper because that's what I have got here (and because and I'm Danish).

Today I have divided my study time between Irish, Scots, Low German, Georgian (only the writing), Modern Greek, Ukrainian, Serbian/Bosnian (Cyrillic resp. Latinitsa) and Romanian. I have watched silent TV with subtitles in Danish, Norwegian and Swedish, I have read things in English and when the MP3 file I'm listening to now finishes I'm going to bed and intend to read some stuff in Occitan and maybe Icelandic there. Sticking to even two languages in a given day while I'm here in my house surrounded by dictionaries, grammars and print-outs in at least twenty languages would be an absurd thought for me - it would be like eating the same kind of ccereal with milk morning, midday and evening every day in a month while being aware of the many alternatives I have waiting for me in my fridge and freezer.

However if I was a novice learner and started out learning a new language I would definitely try to focus on one language for at least a day - but probably another one the day after. It takes some training to survive being a chaotic learner, but I like it. :lol:
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