Efficiency of Reading transcripts with audio

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miles
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Efficiency of Reading transcripts with audio

Postby miles » Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:14 pm

Hi, This is my 3rd post in the forum -really appreciate all the intel.

I just finished Pimaleur 3 Spanish(Also starting to use FSI and MT and italki)

I also just started printing out How to Spanish Podcast series transcripts and alternating between reading them solo then with recording then listening to the recording alone.

But I honestly can’t tell if this is an efficient method of increasing my listening comprehension and reading skills.

In this case I can understand 60% of audio when not looking at transcript but with transcript after several reads I can understand close to 90%. My comprehension reading is wayyyy higher.

Is there evidence that reading along with transcripts in this way is positive for listening comprehension?
Hoping this is the ticket to improving my listenig skills because it is a fun method for me!
Thanks!!
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SpanishInput
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Re: Efficiency of Reading transcripts with audio

Postby SpanishInput » Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:42 pm

Hi! Something I've done a lot is:

Preparation:
Grab the mp3 and the transcript
Import both to WorkAudioBook
Divide the transcript into short sections (max 6 seconds)

Actual ear training:
Listen to each short section as many times as you want
Use the typing area in WAB to type what you hear
Use the shortcut to reveal the transcript
Write down difficult sounds

For more info, there's the WAB website. Rdearman has also published a video about WAB.
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Re: Efficiency of Reading transcripts with audio

Postby SCMT » Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:50 pm

miles wrote:In this case I can understand 60% of audio when not looking at transcript but with transcript after several reads I can understand close to 90%. My comprehension reading is wayyyy higher.

Is there evidence that reading along with transcripts in this way is positive for listening comprehension?


I think you just answered your own question ;)
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miles
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Re: Efficiency of Reading transcripts with audio

Postby miles » Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:26 pm

spanishinput that sounds like a great process I will check it out thanks!
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Steve
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Re: Efficiency of Reading transcripts with audio

Postby Steve » Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:57 am

miles wrote:Hi, This is my 3rd post in the forum -really appreciate all the intel.

I just finished Pimaleur 3 Spanish(Also starting to use FSI and MT and italki)

I also just started printing out How to Spanish Podcast series transcripts and alternating between reading them solo then with recording then listening to the recording alone.

But I honestly can’t tell if this is an efficient method of increasing my listening comprehension and reading skills.

In this case I can understand 60% of audio when not looking at transcript but with transcript after several reads I can understand close to 90%. My comprehension reading is wayyyy higher.

Is there evidence that reading along with transcripts in this way is positive for listening comprehension?
Hoping this is the ticket to improving my listenig skills because it is a fun method for me!
Thanks!!


I've done variations of this quite a bit. The most important thing for me is that I find it relaxing and I enjoy it. It makes for something that is a satisfying part of my life. My main priority is picking up receptive skills so that I can enjoyably do things like reading, listening to music, and watching TV or movies. This method seems to work well for getting me from zero skills to enough skills to enjoy these different language materials. Though I don't do it much, I could probably adapt this to practicing active skills, but I haven't done that enough to really comment on it.

The main thing this does is improve my receptive (reading and listening) skills. I usually do various combinations of listening, following along with parallel texts (or interlinears if available), chorusing/shadowing, reading silently w/o audio, and reading out loud. The way I judge my progress is by how familiar a passage of text (both audio and printed) is becoming. After a passage is somewhat familiar, I'll use grammar and other resources to help improve my comprehension. As a once per week "test", I'll randomly open my text or audio to a future passage I've never seen before and see how much makes sense without stressing out about progress or lack thereof. At different stages of progress, I'll do different combinations of things. When I find myself getting bored or zoning out, I'll do different combinations of things. In a given day, I'll usually use 2 to 3 variations. Once my brain starts shutting down and I cannot focus well, I'll shift to another variation. Usually I can get 15 to 30 minutes of one variation before my attention span is reached and I need to shift gears to get a boost to my attention span for the different variation.

I adapt the amount of repetition based on the subjective feel of how "familiar" something feels. If it feels close to gibberish, I'll do several repetitions on a daily basis. If it is somewhat familiar, I'll spread the repetitions out more over time.

I tend to use 3 general combinations of methods once I get to a somewhat familiar level. The first is extensive where I go for basic understanding and get through pages worth of material using a parallel text as a quick reference as needed. In other words, I'm context focused and want to see what happens next in the story. The second is intensive where I focus on understanding each phrase or sentence using other resources as needed. In other words, I'm language focused. The third is focused where I am doing extensive reading, but will pause to focus on one particular grammar point that is slowing me down to an annoying level. I'm covering content, but I'll pause to deal with language issues that have become annoying and slow me down. I'll fix them enough so that they are no longer a major annoyance. I'm not mastering the point, but I'm improving it to a level where it's not my biggest problem anymore. I'll then move onto the next most irritating thing that slows me down. I'll also combine extensive and intensive in 3 passes for a passage. I'lll read it extensively to see what I can get. Then I read it intensively to better understand it. Then I'll run another extensive pass. I am taking the approach of continuous improvement in a holistic manner centered around receptive skills.

Bottom line is that I experimented a lot and I adapt what I am doing. My main priority is keeping it enjoyable so I want to keep coming back to it day after day. The second priority is that the text and audio I've been covering are becoming more familiar and that seeing or listening to something new has more and more phrases and words that I understand on the first time through. For me, this tends to be a reasonably efficient way of doing things as well as something sustainable over long periods of time. I think something being sustainable because you enjoy it and yielding increasing skills is a good starting point which can be improved and built on. Is this the best possible way of doing things for me? It can probably be improved, perhaps quite a bit. But, doing this is satisfying, I'm making progress, and my life is richer because of it.
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miles
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Re: Efficiency of Reading transcripts with audio

Postby miles » Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:11 pm

Steve, thanks for all this information. It is interesting to me because I have found myself naturally doing a kind of context based read and then a close read as you mention in your post.
Last edited by miles on Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Efficiency of Reading transcripts with audio

Postby Kraut » Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:24 pm

There is something in language learning that didactitians call "desirable difficulty" - in other words "no pain no gain" -, which implies a heightened effort and concentration when starting the learning process, which finally leads to better results because it puts strain on the brain. What might this look like when you want to train listening comprehension?
- Questions on the contents of the audio that you read before listening
- Write down the verb forms that you hear in the sentences.
- Transcribe parts of the audio yourself and then compare with the correct version
- adjectives that you hear

etc ... anything that is (partly) doable
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Re: Efficiency of Reading transcripts with audio

Postby sirgregory » Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:31 pm

Yes, a transcript with audio is helpful. As is a translation (or other vocabulary help). I think repetition is also advisable.

With listening, there are probably three main things that will keep you from understanding. 1) You don't know the words or the language very well (most obvious), 2) lack of fluency, i.e., you can understand it written out but at speed your brain is not processing the words and turning into something meaningful fast enough, 3) you're having trouble matching the sounds you are hearing to the words you know (because normal speech is more contracted, less enunciated, unfamiliar accents, etc.)

I suspect people may tend to overrate the importance of #3 when the issue is probably more often just needing to know more words and getting more fluent with processing the language. (For some languages, #3 might matter more.) Just listening might help you get used to the sounds, but I don't think it helps very much with #1 and #2. But transcripts, translations, repetition, grammar notes do help.

On #3, I have noticed my comprehension is lower with Spanish Spanish vs Mexican Spanish. The language is not terribly different but I guess it's different enough to be a little harder. I assume it's that the less familiar accent along with the slightly different ways of saying things increases the processing load a little bit.
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Re: Efficiency of Reading transcripts with audio

Postby leosmith » Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:51 am

miles wrote:In this case I can understand 60% of audio when not looking at transcript but with transcript after several reads I can understand close to 90%. My comprehension reading is wayyyy higher. Is there evidence that reading along with transcripts in this way is positive for listening comprehension?

I haven't heard of a study, but there is something that you can do to find out. Get a group of somewhat homogeneous articles with audio (you can use these languagecrush conversations if you'd like), and compare these two techniques:

Technique A (2 Listens, 1 Read total)
1) Listen to article 1
2) Read.
3) Listen again, and notice your comprehension level.

Technique B (2 Listens, 1 Read total)
1) Listen while reading along.
2) Listen, and notice your comprehension level.

If technique B gives you a better comprehension than A, then listening while reading along is more efficient than listening first/reading later. Fyi, I do technique A, but I'm curious if B would be better.
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miles
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Re: Efficiency of Reading transcripts with audio

Postby miles » Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:19 am

leosmith wrote:
miles wrote:In this case I can understand 60% of audio when not looking at transcript but with transcript after several reads I can understand close to 90%. My comprehension reading is wayyyy higher. Is there evidence that reading along with transcripts in this way is positive for listening comprehension?

I haven't heard of a study, but there is something that you can do to find out. Get a group of somewhat homogeneous articles with audio (you can use these languagecrush conversations if you'd like), and compare these two techniques:

Technique A (2 Listens, 1 Read total)
1) Listen to article 1
2) Read.
3) Listen again, and notice your comprehension level.

Technique B (2 Listens, 1 Read total)
1) Listen while reading along.
2) Listen, and notice your comprehension level.

If technique B gives you a better comprehension than A, then listening while reading along is more efficient than listening first/reading later. Fyi, I do technique A, but I'm curious if B would be better.


I will have to try it. I will say there is a very specific cognitive experience when reading along with the audio that I can’t quite describe. I guess it kind of feels like “a fake it till you make it” type process because I don’t have the head space to linger on parts I don’t understand yet I am both hearing and reading the input/ and this is not a usual sensation in my native language…
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