About accents

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dml130
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Re: About accents

Postby dml130 » Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:54 pm

Le Baron wrote:A 'bad' accent is admittedly never desirable, but there is a big gulf and continuum between 'bad accent' and 'sounding like a native/native-like', Think of all the people you know, famous or not, who have a good command of your native language or another one you know. Do you care about their accent? I barely think about it, I'm more charmed by the command and the accent is often a characteristic element.


I agree with this. I grew up in the northeastern US, and when I hear a foreign born person with a good command of English speak with a subtle or moderate accent, to my ears it adds character, not much different than when I hear a British accent or a southern drawl from other well spoken native English speakers. As an example, I recall Werner Herzog doing some amazing work as a narrator in his documentaries, and his accent did not detract from it at all, if anything it is arguably a beneficially distinguishing feature, at least in my opnion.

So I'd say striving for a good accent is probably ideal for most people. A goal of perfection, on the other hand, probably isn't worth the trouble in most cases.
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Re: About accents

Postby leosmith » Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:34 pm

leosmith wrote:
Le Baron wrote:Most of all I find the fixation upon accent holds back a lot of people from using their language.

I think it's the other way around.
Here is Glossika coming down on the side of "it's ok if you don't care about your accent".
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Re: About accents

Postby Le Baron » Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:42 pm

leosmith wrote:
leosmith wrote:
Le Baron wrote:Most of all I find the fixation upon accent holds back a lot of people from using their language.

I think it's the other way around.
Here is Glossika coming down on the side of "it's ok if you don't care about your accent".

This is because the people behind Glossika have questionable accents.
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Re: About accents

Postby leosmith » Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:40 pm

Le Baron wrote:This is because the people behind Glossika have questionable accents.
:lol:
Are you referring to Mike's French? I tried to find that, but I think it got taken down.
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Re: About accents

Postby Le Baron » Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:58 pm

leosmith wrote:
Le Baron wrote:This is because the people behind Glossika have questionable accents.
:lol:
Are you referring to Mike's French? I tried to find that, but I think it got taken down.

Oh no! Have I missed something? I haven't heard any of the French Glossika. I did listen to the German one for a bit when I found it on the archive. The German accent was fine I suppose, but it was the prompt fellow who drove me barmy. After a while his annoying voice just sounds like a wildly quacking duck and felt like acid pouring into my ears.
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Re: About accents

Postby leosmith » Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:34 am

Le Baron wrote:Oh no! Have I missed something? I haven't heard any of the French Glossika. I did listen to the German one for a bit when I found it on the archive. The German accent was fine I suppose, but it was the prompt fellow who drove me barmy. After a while his annoying voice just sounds like a wildly quacking duck and felt like acid pouring into my ears.

Michael Campbell, founder of Glossika, is an incredible polyglot; one of my personal favs. To be clear, the thing that makes him so impressive to most is his mastery of several Chinese languages. But before he learned Chinese, he learned French, and he used to have at least one video of it on YouTube. He was an intermediate speaker, but his pronunciation was surprisingly poor; almost like he didn't care. His Mandarin pronunciation, on the other hand, is one of the best I've heard from a native English speaker.

Acid in the ears does not sound like fun. I'll avoid that one.
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Re: About accents

Postby Axon » Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:06 am

leosmith wrote:
Michael Campbell, founder of Glossika, is an incredible polyglot; one of my personal favs. To be clear, the thing that makes him so impressive to most is his mastery of several Chinese languages. ... His Mandarin pronunciation, on the other hand, is one of the best I've heard from a native English speaker.


This is actually what I had in mind when I specified "passes for a native if the listener isn't expecting a non-native." I showed one of his videos to a Chinese person because he was using Mandarin to explain a concept in English pronunciation. Later I mentioned that I wanted to speak Mandarin as well as Mike did in the video, and she was shocked because she had just assumed he had been born in Taiwan. He's also a great example of the idea that it's also a question of how long you can maintain your excellent accent. There's a video of him giving an hour-long speech in Mandarin and you can definitely see him getting less fluent and more fatigued over time - as anyone would! It's up to the native Taiwanese Mandarin speakers in the audience to tell whether his presentation was engaging and whether his language ability affected their ability to retain the information. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJoaK-32QAA

Have you ever heard Mike speak more than a phrase or two in a Chinese language besides Mandarin? I've seen his old Taiwanese Youtube videos but never any actual speech as opposed to instructional phrases. Regardless, his linguistic knowledge of syntax in all the Taiwanese aboriginal languages he's studied, not to mention Chinese and Russian, is pretty astonishing and I always wish more of his older videos would resurface.
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Re: About accents

Postby leosmith » Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:58 am

Axon wrote:There's a video of him giving an hour-long speech in Mandarin and you can definitely see him getting less fluent and more fatigued over time - as anyone would!
I'm glad I'm not the only one. As soon as the time is up in a 1 hour conversation class, the tutor often starts to extend it, making small talk and such, and I'm like buh-bye. My brain is melting.
To answer your other question, I've heard him speak other Chinese languages, but am in no position to judge them myself. In that case I mostly go by what others say. Another thing that impressed me so much about him were some posts he made in HTLAL regarding how he learned Mandarin. They were long, detailed, and made a whole lot of sense. Unfortunately, I cannot find them to post a link here.
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Re: About accents

Postby Kraut » Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:42 am

These two are my favourites when it comes to young adults acquiring a new "accent".

Gisela Stuart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhfZzEf87wY


David Allen Martin
somewhere in another video he claims Germans think that he is native

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqVlZ7bB8Rk
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Re: About accents

Postby Le Baron » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:13 am

Gisela's accent is the least of her problems.
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