Children Learning Language via Reading

General discussion about learning languages
ahilan
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Children Learning Language via Reading

Postby ahilan » Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:11 pm

Hi,

First time poster here, so apologies if this is a double post (I don't have access to the search option apparently)

I’m curious if there are any of you out there who learned a language almost purely by reading (ie. not a huge amount of contact with the language next to reading). I’ve been trying a lot of things to teach my daughters (8 & 10) Tamil.

The problem is I’ve only been learning it for the last 5 years, and my level is still poor. Plus, we currently don’t have much access to the community (working on that). But they have managed to learn the script, and both of them can read pretty well (problem being they don't understand the majority of what they read). Of course I don’t wish to solely rely on this, but it’s also until now the one tactic that has really worked and in which we've built up some consistency.

So I’m curious if anyone has experience from their youth or with their kids? I've found most other accounts of reading as a method towards fluency only just touch the surface.

Thanks in advance

Ahilan

EDIT: a lot of people are responding with tips in the line of finding other Tamil-language media to expose them. Yes, yes! This is of course very important, and I am always busy with this, but with this topic I was really hoping to hone in on reading as a method of learning.
Last edited by ahilan on Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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leosmith
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Re: Children Learning Language via Reading

Postby leosmith » Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:58 am

I don’t have that experience, but I just wanted to comment that, unless they master pronunciation at the same time that they learn the alphabet, before starting to read, learners are not advised to “Learn via Reading”. This is because if they don’t know how to pronounce, they will subconsciously assign sounds to text that are incorrect, and have really bad fossilized pronunciation errors when they finally start to talk. However, if they don’t actually plan to speak the language, please just ignore this post.
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Lawyer&Mom
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Re: Children Learning Language via Reading

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:03 am

I do a lot of reading French aloud to my kids. That way I’m exposing them to a lot of correct French, much more than I can could produce correctly speaking to them. My pronunciation isn’t perfect, but it’s pretty good. I supplement this by having them watch a lot of native French TV. They have internalized a lot of pronunciation this way. (It pains me to say that my 8 year old can do a better French R than me…) I would read to your kids and have them consume Tamil TV. At some point they can read to themselves, but to start your pronunciation is going to be better than theirs.
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Re: Children Learning Language via Reading

Postby Cenwalh » Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:50 am

ahilan wrote:both of them can read pretty well (problem being they don't understand the majority of what they read).

I never understand why people say this. Can I read Estonian just because it uses the Latin alphabet?

If input is not comprehensible it is very difficult to learn from. You need to find simpler texts for them to read if you don't want them rebelling hard against this, since what kid wants to stare at a bunch of gibberish all day?

Secondly, you'll need something with audio, preferably with a visual aid, to teach pronunciation. If they do not have good pronunciation, then they'll sound as good as me reading Estonian. Indeed, I would say this is more important at this stage than reading, especially for young children. Are you able to source cartoons dubbed in Tamil? Here's a list of things on Netflix in Tamil, but I'm sure you could find more things on the websites of broadcasters in India, Sri Lanka, and even Singapore.

Best of luck!

Edit: I see Singapore has a fair amount to offer for kids, although some of it is region locked which may or may not be a blocker. https://www.mewatch.sg/languages/tamil
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ahilan
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Re: Children Learning Language via Reading

Postby ahilan » Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:31 am

leosmith wrote:I don’t have that experience, but I just wanted to comment that, unless they master pronunciation at the same time that they learn the alphabet, before starting to read, learners are not advised to “Learn via Reading”. This is because if they don’t know how to pronounce, they will subconsciously assign sounds to text that are incorrect, and have really bad fossilized pronunciation errors when they finally start to talk. However, if they don’t actually plan to speak the language, please just ignore this post.


they are learning this at the same time, albeit not from the best teacher. Me, unfortunately... But I do correct them. We also speak a bit, like for commonly used phrases.
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ahilan
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Re: Children Learning Language via Reading

Postby ahilan » Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:41 am

I think it's important to clarify that they have a decent amount of exposure to the language (cartoons + music). In the case of music, there are songs they can sing along with. Also, when they are reading Tamil, I am normally sitting next to them and guiding/correcting.

Anyway, I'm really hoping to get input from people who have purely focussed on reading and to hear what the results of this are. Or any studies anyone may have come across. I'm already quite aware of the fact that they need other exposure to the language.

Thanks for the input.
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Re: Children Learning Language via Reading

Postby Kraut » Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:35 pm

Reading in the brain by Stanislas Dehaene is your book
https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Brain-Ne ... 0143118056

Listening and speaking is evolutionary and should come first in order to create meaning about the world.
Writing is an invention by man and secondary. You can invent signs that correspond to sounds/words and learn this connection by heart and read them fluently in a text without understanding anything because you have not learnt the meanings.
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Re: Children Learning Language via Reading

Postby Odair » Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:54 pm

I suppose that if you teach a child (or anyone) a language mostly by reading, their pronunciation and listening comprehension are going to become very bad as a result. An adult could be willing to learn a language just for reading, but for a child that will become boring very quickly. I don't suppose they will be reading a whole page or a whole book.
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Re: Children Learning Language via Reading

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:37 pm

Odair wrote:I suppose that if you teach a child (or anyone) a language mostly by reading, their pronunciation and listening comprehension are going to become very bad as a result. An adult could be willing to learn a language just for reading, but for a child that will become boring very quickly. I don't suppose they will be reading a whole page or a whole book.


They might read a whole comic strip! My kids have a French comic series they love. I read it to them, but they also sneak it to read themselves. Helps that French is fairly transparent to a native English speaker, so they can guess at words they don’t know.
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Re: Children Learning Language via Reading

Postby Cenwalh » Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:11 pm

ahilan wrote:I think it's important to clarify that they have a decent amount of exposure to the language (cartoons + music). In the case of music, there are songs they can sing along with. Also, when they are reading Tamil, I am normally sitting next to them and guiding/correcting.

Anyway, I'm really hoping to get input from people who have purely focussed on reading and to hear what the results of this are. Or any studies anyone may have come across. I'm already quite aware of the fact that they need other exposure to the language.

Thanks for the input.

The fact that they have lots of exposure to Tamil in cartoons and music completely changes the question, so turning to the question of whether it's good for a child to read as a secondary source of input, I would say absolutely it is! Reading is great for children (and everyone else), so I'd totally recommend both letting and encouraging them to read (along with the cartoons, music, and any other audiovisual input they currently get).

I also think it's great that you're there to help them, but remember that if you want a kid to do anything and you don't want them to resent you, it has to be fun or at least rewarding for them.

On the subject of studies, the general consensus is that for extensive reading (ie reading for pleasure) to be beneficial and tolerable, it needs to be comprehensible, which is generally taken to mean about 98% vocabulary knowledge of any given text, which translates to an unknown word every few sentences. There may be complications with the Tamil script and such, but I'd stick to that. The works of Paul Nation and Stephen Krashen are oft cited round these parts in that regard.
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