Is language learning socially acceptable?

General discussion about learning languages
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Le Baron
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Re: Is language learning socially acceptable?

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:52 pm

I tend not to talk about it in general; unless it arises, which is almost never. However I suppose the question isn't a personal one, but about the general 'climate' of acceptance?

What sherbert outlined for the U.S. seems to be applicable here in NL. Same sorts of prestige languages, same sorts of indifference to others. Also the growth of knowing only the home language + English has reduced wider language learning in general. So I actually have heard people say 'what's the point in learning...X-language really?'

I'd echo BeaP when she said there are those who dismiss it because they've never made an effort, but perhaps secretly want the ability. Also agree with zenmonkey and zgriptsuroica saying that it's best not to go on about it when it's unsolicited and not to shut people out of discussion just for the sake of exercising a language. That sort of thing is just rude conduct anyway, not specifically language acceptability.
Last edited by Le Baron on Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is language learning socially acceptable?

Postby garyb » Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:57 pm

I also tend to keep it quiet unless it comes up naturally in conversation.

I wouldn't say there are many negative judgements here in the UK. There's occasionally the "everybody speaks English" attitude, but in my experience people here most commonly feel a bit inadequate about their monolingualism compared to much of mainland Europe and would love to know another language or two, but have never been very successful in their attempts to learn one as a child and/or an adult and have decided that they don't have the talent or the gene or whatever excuse they prefer. Which really means they've not been willing to put in the time because the reward isn't worth the effort, which is quite an accurate and understandable perspective, but things would be simpler if they just acknowledged that...

These excuses do make me more reluctant, since as zgriptsuroica said people will often dismiss me as having a special talent for languages rather than recognise that I've put in a lot of hard work (and to be frank, had fairly unimpressive results considering the amount of work). But then it feels like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't: at times I've preferred to just have people assume I have a special talent than to tell them the truth that I dedicated a considerable amount of my free time over many years to a fairly useless skill. But these days my attitude is a little more "be yourself" and "no regrets", so I don't really mind admitting it as long as I make clear that it was the past and while I'm still into languages now it's not quite the obsession it once was.

I also agree on the points about social skills, and I wouldn't bring up or insist on talking a specific interest if the other party didn't seem interested. Fortunately languages aren't considered as weird as many specific interests, since they are a subject that most people have some experience with and curiosity about, so people are willing to listen to me talk about them at the pub every now and again.

The only bad reactions I get are from native speakers of the languages I learn, so these days when I meet one through my social circle or at work I keep it to myself until I feel I have some level of confidence with them (or someone else tells them for me, which always goes better, perhaps because there's the social proof of having someone else vouch for it). But the ones with a positive attitude about it are then like "why didn't you say so before?!" as if I've been dishonest by hiding it from them. You can never win :lol: Again I don't care as much about what people think of me as I used to, but at the same time it's always good to avoid getting off on the wrong foot when you meet someone for the first time.
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Re: Is language learning socially acceptable?

Postby Cainntear » Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:05 pm

No! Begone from my sight, foul language learning fiend!! :D
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Re: Is language learning socially acceptable?

Postby Lemus » Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:16 pm

I've found an odd sort of dichotomy where it is very cool to speak a language but any unusual effort put towards obtaining one is viewed as bizarre and/or suspect.

If you would like some unfounded speculation as to why that is I think because a lot of people (in the US, and presumably in other largely monoligual cultures as well) take comfort from myths about language learning as an adult being impossible unless you are some sort of eccentric genius or CIA agent or something. Someone who just happens to speak, say, Portuguese does not threaten that. Perhaps they learned it as a child, or lived for years in Brazil, or simply are some sort of linguistic genius.

Someone who has devoted time and effort as an adult on their own volition though does threaten that and reveals that myths like "you can't learn a language unless you start young" are just that-myths. That means that people who tell themselves things like "I would love to speak French, but who has the time?" have fewer excuses than they once did.

I think this is somewhat different than other hobbies because a lot of people desire to be multilingual. If your hobby is model trains that might be tedious to some people but it is unlikely to provoke any sort of jealousy or self-doubt. No one is troubled by doubts that they are not capable of collecting model trains.

I have noticed that in many movies and TV shows the main character, when they need to be portrayed as cool or sophisticated, will speak fluently whatever language they need to yet there will rarely be any indication that it took them any effort. Jason Bourne looks cool speaking flawless Russian when he needs to, but him doing that doesn't provoke any sort of discomfort with the viewer because they are not a highly trained CIA asset.

This does not bother me since that's what this forum is for. I don't really want to hear about someone's fantasy football team and they don't want to hear my thoughts on Anki. Everyone is entitled to their own hobbies and they don't need to justify them to others as long as they are socially harmless.
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Re: Is language learning socially acceptable?

Postby thevagrant88 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:59 pm

sherbert wrote:In the USA, the more "familiar" the language, the more socially acceptable it is. The top of the list would be French, which is not terribly useful, but is not perceived as threatening, in that the cultures or countries that it represents do not carry many negative connotations.

The further down the list you go, even in terms of "popular" languages, the less receptivity there is to learning those languages. People much more educated than me have found it strange that I have learned Chinese and Farsi. The irony is that in the USA you are more likely to hear a language like Vietnamese or Arabic than Italian or German, but studying Italian or German is not thought to be as eccentric. And God help you if you study a language that no one has ever heard of.


If I ever mention that I’ve studied a bit of Japanese, people assume I watch anime and usually wonder why don’t I learn something useful like Spanish instead. I usual tell them that I don’t really watch anime…in Spanish. Somehow the fact that my Spanish is pretty decent somehow shakes off some of the “weeb” but yeah, what can you do.
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Re: Is language learning socially acceptable?

Postby Axon » Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:18 pm

I don't think I've ever had anyone react negatively when I've mentioned learning this or that language. I tend to learn languages because of travel or family, which are probably the most common reasons to learn. "My grandmother spoke Polish" - only with her own parents and never to me, but it's an easy answer.

Oddly enough, I think the act of publicly learning is something I'm less comfortable with. I would feel a little embarrassed to take a book like "French Short Stories in Parallel Text" out on a subway ride. If I'm listening to the radio in Spanish with the windows open, I turn it down when I'm stopped next to other cars at a red light. None of this is because of a bad experience, it's just something I'm shy about.
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Re: Is language learning socially acceptable?

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:26 pm

At least there were some interesting posts about people's experiences.

I agree though. Find the OP and give them a ruddy thick ear!
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Re: Is language learning socially acceptable?

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:10 pm

STT44 wrote:People, don't spend too much effort replying to this thread. The OP is almost certainly a bot. If you look through OP's post history, you'll see all they have done so far is ask one-liner questions with zero context, then bugger off.

Maybe we should have some minimum criteria for opening posts, like minimum 200 letters, 5 sentences and two paragraphs... to stop this nonsense.


Bots now edit posts and answer questions?
Cool.
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Re: Is language learning socially acceptable?

Postby tmexa » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:11 am

I intend to eventually learn at least two Indian languages, which are Sanskrit and Tamil.
My native language is tamil, but my own family often brushes it off as a useless language, and most middle-class Indians have a rather condescending view towards their own linguistic heritage. There are some Indian parents who take pride in the fact that their children don't know single word of their native language. I grew up in the USA as a monolingual anglophone, though I have always longed to learn an Indian language.
Some of the more Anglicized Indians have grown up in India as Monolingual Anglophones, as if they grew up in faraway North America lacking the necessary exposure to their own language(LOL)
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Re: Is language learning socially acceptable?

Postby Le Baron » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:31 am

tmexa wrote:I intend to eventually learn at least two Indian languages, which are Sanskrit and Tamil.
My native language is tamil, but my own family often brushes it off as a useless language, and most middle-class Indians have a rather condescending view towards their own linguistic heritage. There are some Indian parents who take pride in the fact that their children don't know single word of their native language. I grew up in the USA as a monolingual anglophone, though I have always longed to learn an Indian language.

You realise though that the explanation following the bit underlined means it's not your native language? It's a 'heritage' language. Well done on taking steps to reclaim it.
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