Has anyone here learned cuneiform and if so what were your resources?

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Dragon27
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Re: Has anyone here learned cuneiform and if so what were your resources?

Postby Dragon27 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:34 pm

Carmody wrote:Trouble is that for me the appearance of Akkadian is definitely not cueniaform

The bulk of cuneiform is written in Akkadian. You only chose one specific example of it, don't generalize your impression over the whole language. In fact, the cuneiform writing in your original post (Xerxes I inscription at Van) contains cuneiform in three languages: Old Persian, Elamite and Babylonian (a later Akkadian dialect).

The cuneiform inscription on the Manishtushu Obelisk (from your post) seems to be written in archaic linear script:
Early cuneiform inscription used simple linear inscriptions, made by using a pointed stylus, sometimes called "linear cuneiform", before the introduction of new wedge-type styluses with their typical wedge-shaped signs. Many of the early dynastic inscriptions, particularly those made on stone, continued to use the linear style as late as circa 2000 BC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform#Early_Dynastic_cuneiform_(circa_2500_BC)
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Re: Has anyone here learned cuneiform and if so what were your resources?

Postby Deinonysus » Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:47 pm

Dragon27 wrote:
Carmody wrote:Trouble is that for me the appearance of Akkadian is definitely not cueniaform

The bulk of cuneiform is written in Akkadian. You only chose one specific example of it, don't generalize your impression over the whole language. In fact, the cuneiform writing in your original post (Xerxes I inscription at Van) contains cuneiform in three languages: Old Persian, Elamite and Babylonian (a later Akkadian dialect).

The cuneiform inscription on the Manishtushu Obelisk (from your post) seems to be written in archaic linear script:
Early cuneiform inscription used simple linear inscriptions, made by using a pointed stylus, sometimes called "linear cuneiform", before the introduction of new wedge-type styluses with their typical wedge-shaped signs. Many of the early dynastic inscriptions, particularly those made on stone, continued to use the linear style as late as circa 2000 BC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform#Early_Dynastic_cuneiform_(circa_2500_BC)

That obelisk looks a bit newer than the linear cuneiform. You can see clear wedge shapes, for example in the distinctive star-shaped glyph "an". I'd say it's in a typical Old Babylonian style. Later cuneiform (such as Neo-Assyrian) is much more stylized and harder to distinguish from simple cuneiform-inspired scripts like Persian and Ugaritic.

Here are some examples of the progression from pictographic to heavily stylized cuneiform:

Image
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/daɪ.nə.ˈnaɪ.səs/

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Carmody
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Re: Has anyone here learned cuneiform and if so what were your resources?

Postby Carmody » Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:48 pm

Deinonysus »

Thanks so much for your posting; it is greatly appreciated.
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Dragon27
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Re: Has anyone here learned cuneiform and if so what were your resources?

Postby Dragon27 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:57 pm

Deinonysus wrote:That obelisk looks a bit newer than the linear cuneiform. You can see clear wedge shapes

Yeah, there are some wedge shapes here and there on some glyphs, or they make an impression of being wedge-shaped. But it still looks like something more transitional.
This wedge-shaped cuneiform still kinda looks archaic, for example:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... AO3766.jpg
Deinonysus wrote:I'd say it's in a typical Old Babylonian style. Later cuneiform (such as Neo-Assyrian) is much more stylized and harder to distinguish from simple cuneiform-inspired scripts like Persian and Ugaritic.

Is it yet time for Old Babylonian? Wiki puts the time frame for "Old Babylonian and Old Assyrian" to "1950–1530 BC", but this obelisk "was erected by Manishtushu, son of Sargon the Great, of the Akkadian Empire, who ruled circa 2270–2255 BC" (I assume that the writing was done during the same time period). Does the style predate the dialect, or maybe the time frame from the wiki is not entirely correct?

Hey, I'm no specialist, just making some wild amateur guesses.
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Re: Has anyone here learned cuneiform and if so what were your resources?

Postby Carmody » Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:29 pm

For those who might be interested:
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