When learning a new and challenging language, I ...

General discussion about learning languages

When learning a new and challenging language, I ...

Don't use courses or textbooks
4
4%
Use multiple beginner courses
24
26%
Use a comprehensive course
21
23%
Do courses sequentially (usually)
14
15%
Do courses simultaneously (usually)
18
20%
Repeat or systematically review courses
10
11%
 
Total votes: 91

Odair
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Re: When learning a new and challenging language, I ...

Postby Odair » Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:48 am

I would use multiple comprehensive courses if available.
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german2k01
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Re: When learning a new and challenging language, I ...

Postby german2k01 » Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:55 pm

I opted for multiple beginner courses. Different courses cover different topics and hence will expose you to different structures of the language. If you miss something in one course, chances are that it might be covered in another course. Just to illustrate this point, I used different comprehensive materials for listening yet I am in the dark when it comes to saying simple things like "I would like to order a coffee" or "I would like to pay my rent". Since my subconscious mind is not fully exposed to the full sentence yet by osmosis so it uses a keyword instead. Business transaction takes place but still, I am in the dark.
Recently I have gone through a German grammar book with example sentences so my subconscious mind was exposed to the correct grammar structure for "I would like". Even though the author uses the example sentence to illustrate a different grammar point but the given example fits my practical purpose. And, my subconscious picks up on it, self-corrects it, and fills in the missing parts, and now it uses the full sentences for "I would like to order a coffee" or "I would like to pay my rent".
Take away lesson: Use a variety of resources right from the beginning.
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Le Baron
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Re: When learning a new and challenging language, I ...

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:53 pm

zenmonkey wrote:I still don’t know what comprehensive means in this context.

Legit query. I suppose it means those that really go for thoroughness like Routledge Intensive German Course or something like that. (Which I haven't ever done, because even the title made me feel exhausted).

Assimil though.. is it 'comprehensive' or not? Maybe for the ground it covers. I'll call it justifiably a 'comprehensive beginner course'.

This could get complicated.
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luke
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Re: When learning a new and challenging language, I ...

Postby luke » Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:25 pm

Le Baron wrote:Assimil though.. is it 'comprehensive' or not? Maybe for the ground it covers. I'll call it justifiably a 'comprehensive beginner course'.

Everyone is free to interpret the poll choices as they see fit.

"Comprehensive" implies that one develops a firm foundation.

The poll didn't juxtapose 'comprehensive' and 'beginner' in any choice.

comprehensive: adjective - of broad scope or content; including all or much

Some examples of 'comprehensive' are things like "French in Action" with all its components. FSI Basic French, FSI Basic Spanish, DLI courses with dozens of hours of audio and thousands of pages of manuals, CEFR prep course series like @BeaP and @Cavesa refer to, etc.
I.E., something that is actually comprehensive, rather than simply marketed as comprehensive.

For example, I wouldn't consider Hugo French in 3 months + Hugo Advanced French to be comprehensive. There's not enough audio or drills. Someone else may be able to graduate from a couple courses like that, or a 'With Ease' + 'Using' Assimil course and move on to conversations, reading, etc. For them, the same materials may be 'comprehensive'.

Looping back to Professor Arguelles suggestions for exotic languages; he talks about using multiple beginner courses. He creates a 'comprehensive beginner' course by using more than one. Even for non-exotic languages, using multiple beginner courses is fairly common.
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Le Baron
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Re: When learning a new and challenging language, I ...

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:02 pm

Okay, with this demarcation now made, I can say I'm much more likely to use something like (though not necessarily) 'Hugo Three Months' and pass through it as rapidly as I can. Then to go from there. The fact that it doesn't have extensive audio is not a worry for me because what I want to know are: basic grammar, basic pronunciation, common structures, how to use and conjugate things like common modal verbs, how to form questions..etc. The audio I'll get will be functional for that and a little more. Those courses give you just enough. I also don't want lots of technical information and in-depth grammar explanations at that stage.

After that a follow-up course where I can gauge that it's meant to be for someone who has already followed a beginner course. If I didn't really get through the basic course 'with ease', then I'll review it. Also graduating to listening material from elsewhere, plus outside reading.

I assume this is pretty much what a lot of people do? Maybe I'm mistaken? What I never fancy doing is something like FSI courses that take ages (months on end) and have endless drills and 90-odd audio files. I'm sure they work, in fact they clearly do, but that's not for me. I know there is going to be a lull and plateau period, so it's not a problem for me to be consulting A2/B1 materials to fill-in grammar holes and other bits and pieces.

It used to be that only FIGS languages had lots of available content, but now the availability of material for other languages has broadened. Especially on youtube; for things like e.g. Swahili and Indonesian, Arabic, Chinese. So the plan for me is: find a way in by locking-in the basics and then just keep building upwards and outwards; only turning back to fill gaps when they become apparent. For long periods in 'intermediate' it's not all fast improvement and I'm not worried about it so long as there is some semblance of getting incrementally better.

So in relation to 'multiple beginner courses' I'd say on the whole: no. If one hasn't done the basic work and thoroughly focused on the beginner course, it might be a clue as to why one has to keep piling beginner course on top of beginner course. It might also be a sense of 'perfectionism', where one imagines they can't or mustn't move onwards until they know every last scrap of 'core grammar'. Good way to keep yourself at first base forever.
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jimmy
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Re: When learning a new and challenging language, I ...

Postby jimmy » Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:54 pm

currently I use just channels (i.e. videos) (very less) and textbooks (very common)
I am autodidactic so,I do not have / need to take courses.
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Fuerza
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Re: When learning a new and challenging language, I ...

Postby Fuerza » Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:04 pm

I like to use comprehensive textbooks, the thicker the better, paired with Mango, Pimsleur, or a similar program. When I’ve spent a few weeks I incorporate native materials like news websites and podcasts. Since I get reimbursed the cost of tuition and books for courses by my employer, I will often sign up for a college or professional course just to get the books. I complete the course, but don’t actually learn anything. I then teach myself. A quirk of mine: I refuse to use hardcover textbooks. If they don’t make it in softcover, I’m not buying it. I just cannot concentrate unless I can bend the covers. I’m weird, I accept that. I will use an e- book if it’s free, but I also hate them.
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tsuyoshi
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Re: When learning a new and challenging language, I ...

Postby tsuyoshi » Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:18 am

I'm currently on only my second language, but after having tried everything for that one, I know exactly what I will be doing for every successive language. I will start with Pimsleur and a good textbook, and go through them simultaneously. After that, I would hopefully be at the point where I can take native-language materials, look up all the words I don't know in the dictionary, and memorize them with an SRS.
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