Definition of a Polyglot

[zenmonkey]

I searched “polyglot lifestyle” on YouTube and saw a few interesting videos.
I’m just going to drop this one here, seems relevant.

[Cainntear]

What I'm trying to say is: you can call me a polyglot if you want. You can call Richard Simcott a polyglot if you want. But remember that it's just that: a word, a label for lack of better.

Pretty much what I said in terms of it not being a magic word. However there can be no dismissing how words and meanings are used/employed or 'misused'.

I don't think anyone here has done that, though.

[Cavesa]

My only issue with the term, and the only reason to think about who is a polyglot, are the scams. People with very weak skills in several (or many) languages, who profit from them and have a very negative impact on others. Many are just too ignorant and showing off the Dunning Kruger effect, and they are already doing a lot of damage. But those doing it for any kind of profit are much worse.

If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't care at all about any limit or gatekeeping, as I agree it is overall a bad practice. But sometimes, gatekeeping is meant to protect. Like not everybody claiming to be a doctor will be allowed to just go and treat people in your local hospital. They'll need a diploma, not just say they studied it somehow to some level.

What really grinds my gears are those people, who for personal profit (money for products, money for ads in their videos, ego boost, etc) distort the public image of language learning and negatively affect learners, especially newbies.

Unrealistic claims damage the newbies' expectations and set them up for a failure. Stupid products get sold, but won't give the results, and will discourage the learners (on top of costing their money). Obvious frauds or situation manipulations (the totally rehearsed videos for example) are damaging the image of the real language learners, especially the independent ones. Their wrong claims combined with a huge ego are affecting the public discussions a bit too much, as they often try to present themselves as authorities instead of presenting themselves accordingly to their experience and results.

That's my issue. I am happy for any polyglot (no matter whether they speak ok 4 or 8 languages) and I personally don't aspire to call myself that, unless I get over 6 languages. For me, languages are just a part of any identity, but it can indeed be one of the major parts for various people. But I simply refuse to respect most typical internet polyglots, especially if they sell anything.

[iguanamon]

Everyone else has already weighed in, some multiple times. Polyglot? It's a word that means someone who speaks multiple languages. I don't watch the usual youtube polyglot suspects' videos. I don't really care what Professor A, Lucca, or any of the others do. I have enough trouble keeping up with what I do. I don't have enough time either.

People can define the word however they want. I don't care if I fall into the definition or not. I've never cared for the "parlor-trick" aspect of youtube polyglots. What I like is how it makes me feel to be able to read and understand a book written in Rashi script Ladino, learning about a culture I knew little about before. I like being able to gain a new perspective on areas of the world through their own language. I like having a more rewarding travel experience in countries where I speak the language. I like the friends I've made and the possibility of meeting more.

That's why I learn and have learned languages... not to amaze and provoke wonder, not to perform like a trained animal or a plate spinner.

[Le Baron]

What I like is how it makes me feel to be able to read and understand a book written in Rashi script Ladino, learning about a culture I knew little about before. I like being able to gain a new perspective on areas of the world through their own language. I like having a more rewarding travel experience in countries where I speak the language. I like the friends I've made and the possibility of meeting more.

That's why I learn and have learned languages... not to amaze and provoke wonder, not to perform like a trained animal or a plate spinner.

This marvellous situation is what other people could be led to, perhaps even one language at a time for some and for that to be rubber-stamped as 'OK'. And probably in a better, more constructive way if they weren't led astray into feeling they have missed the boat and need to be juggling five languages or else. That's what I'm railing against and why I think this question is real and not just 'bickering' about tastes or definitions.

[IronMike]

Everyone else has already weighed in, some multiple times. Polyglot? It's a word that means someone who speaks multiple languages. I don't watch the usual youtube polyglot suspects' videos. I don't really care what Professor A, Lucca, or any of the others do. I have enough trouble keeping up with what I do. I don't have enough time either.

People can define the word however they want. I don't care if I fall into the definition or not. I've never cared for the "parlor-trick" aspect of youtube polyglots. What I like is how it makes me feel to be able to read and understand a book written in Rashi script Ladino, learning about a culture I knew little about before. I like being able to gain a new perspective on areas of the world through their own language. I like having a more rewarding travel experience in countries where I speak the language. I like the friends I've made and the possibility of meeting more.

That's why I learn and have learned languages... not to amaze and provoke wonder, not to perform like a trained animal or a plate spinner.

Like my friend iguanamon, I also don't watch polyglot videos. Didn't even know people did that sort of thing till this forum. Even so, I didn't care enough to spend my valuable time watching them. If I had all that extra time, I'd spend it with the kids, the wife, or if I'm caught up with father- and marriage-maintenance, then I'd spend that time studying more of the languages I love so much.

I don't have a goal of C1 or B1 or B2 or whatever in 184,629 languages. That's just collecting. What I want is to enjoy myself, whether that means I can read Bridge on the Drina in the original or Master & Margarita in original or Beowulf.

I care not if anyone calls me a polyglot. And I don't care to define the word, either.

[BeaP]

Tarvos's post has made think about various things.

The biggest takeaway of this thread for me is this:
When we 'define' the word polyglot, we talk about our own goals, wishes and views on language learning. I answered the original question like this: 'C level in a few languages'. Exactly my goal. If you want to make an objective standard out of your views, it's not OK. And not just for the reason Tarvos or Cainntear have written about. You can't make people have your goals, you can't HELP them to achieve YOUR goals.
Thanks to a member I like quite a bit and wanted to 'help' aggressively I'm starting to realise that we can have very different goals, and it affects our methods and the things we do when we learn a language.

Some are in it for the road. Some are interested in the learning process more than in actually learning a language. I accept that they watch polyglot videos and read articles about language learning. The biggest strength of a community like this is that we can present various methods suited to various goals, whereas a youtube polyglot can only present one. They can only talk about things that they have enjoyed doing or could do habitually, methods that have worked for them. One goal, one set of preferences, one lifestyle to insert learning into, one method. And yes, when we try to proclaim an individual's or a group's opinion as universal truth in this question, or we push our own to the center we lose the community's advantage and intimidate others.

The 'circus polyglots' are for an adolescent audience, who are not sure about their goals, don't know how to become successful and popular. This is not a language learning problem. This is our problem only as long as we're adolescents ourselves or parents of adolescents.

[Le Baron]

The 'circus polyglots' are for an adolescent audience, who are not sure about their goals, don't know how to become successful and popular. This is not a language learning problem. This is our problem only as long as we're adolescents ourselves or parents of adolescents.

Is this entirely the case though? I wouldn't put e.g. Professor Arguelles in the circus polyglot camp, but he also says some rather debatable and some curious things about language learning and is looked up to by quite a number of non-adolescents on this forum.

Some are in it for the road. Some are interested in the learning process more than in actually learning a language. I accept that they watch polyglot videos and read articles about language learning. The biggest strength of a community like this is that we can present various methods suited to various goals, whereas a youtube polyglot can only present one. They can only talk about things that they have enjoyed doing or could do habitually, methods that have worked for them. One goal, one set of preferences, one lifestyle to insert learning into, one method. And yes, when we try to proclaim an individual's or a group's opinion as universal truth in this question, or we push our own to the center we lose the community's advantage and intimidate others.

This long discussion (not specifically your response!) has veered dangerously towards a dead cat argument. One overbalanced towards 'the plurality of people's feelings' rather than focusing on the cool and detached reality of how languages are (most probably) learned, no matter who you are. In terms of what realistic goals are for the majority outside of the superstars, and methodologies that might be slower and a bit time-consuming and perhaps even quite boring sometimes, but which provide results.

Additionally, how this is what is best transmitted in language learning circles. In order to put people on an even pathway. Rather than one where they are hyped up from the outset about being 'fluent' in Japanese, Mandarin, Korean, alongside many others via crank theories and told things like 'meditation may also be a key'. Or even always being 'just about to start properly', forever. Instead of simply opening proven learning books and doing some actual work in a measured, but persistent way. So they don't burn-out and keep saying every five months: 'oh, I lost interest/burned-out on Anki, but now I'm back and I'm determined to learn x-language this time' and the other 4 x-languages I burned-out on because I was doing them simultaneously, are now on the back burner...'. Or breaking a difficult personal barrier by overcoming the fear of talking, rather than rationalising it away with quack theories about learning.

Even though individuals differ and some will require different pathways, the fairly consistent basis of how a language is acquired does not change to suit anyone's desires or personal 'needs'. There are always discussions to be had about approaches, experiments, strategies, motivations, meaning...all of that.

One may ask: 'what does this have to do with the "definition of a polyglot"?' Well, as the discussion has progressed I wanted to put forward the way "polyglottery" as an increasingly popular identity has started to overshadow the simple act of learning a language(s). Which could be beneficial for so many people and instead turns into a giant mountain never conquered with people meandering about at base camp forever, organising collections of Assimil courses. And I blame known polyglots for it. For over-promoting the idiotic spectacle of surface learning and planting the seed that one additional language is not a great goal in itself. Or that really learning a handful of them properly is something realistic unless you give up the rest of your life. Perhaps even that some have been luckier and had a chance to acquire a couple of languages through heritage or location or schooling or ability or whatever and then set a standard for everyone. Which is also not catering to different personal circumstances.

So the 'definitions of a polyglot' will likely be many. Positive and negative. From simple and honest love of learning and investigating multiple languages to being a shallow dabbler or even someone using it for status because they want an impressive identity. Or a mixture.

[luke]

The 'circus polyglots' are for an adolescent audience, who are not sure about their goals, don't know how to become successful and popular.

I wouldn't put e.g. Professor Arguelles in the circus polyglot camp, but he also says some rather debatable and some curious things about language learning and is looked up to by quite a number of non-adolescents on this forum.

Some are in it for the road. Some are interested in the learning process more than in actually learning a language. I accept that they watch polyglot videos and read articles about language learning. The biggest strength of a community like this is that we can present various methods suited to various goals.

This long discussion (not specifically your response!) has veered dangerously towards a dead cat argument.

I'm not sure what a "dead cat argument" is. I know "dead cat bounce". A search of the Fine Web turned up an article, but since everyone doesn't mean the same thing when they say or hear a word like "polyglot", I hoped you might take this opportunity to clarify the term as you're using it.

The whole discussion has been interesting. There are the adolescent polyglots. I haven't paid much attention to them, as I'd just taken them as having harmless fun, living in a different world at a different time, while understanding that adolescence is tough enough even without a social media milieu full of information and disinformation.

On Professor Arguelles in specific. One can watch his videos for ideas. We do occasionally criticize him here. He's serious about what he's done, which, in and of itself makes for a compelling story, even if one would have never followed a similar path and does not want to. Back to the cat, that sits peacefully on his lap; he has a certain Mr. Rogers vibe that can soothe a savage beast.

[lowsocks]

I'm not sure what a "dead cat argument" is. I know "dead cat bounce". A search of the Fine Web turned up an article, but since everyone doesn't mean the same thing when they say or hear a word like "polyglot", I hoped you might take this opportunity to clarify the term as you're using it.

I am not sure, but perhaps he was thinking of Monty Python's "Dead Parrot" Sketch?

On Professor Arguelles in specific. One can watch his videos for ideas. We do occasionally criticize him here. He's serious about what he's done, which, in and of itself makes for a compelling story, even if one would have never followed a similar path and does not want to. Back to the cat, that sits peacefully on his lap; he has a certain Mr. Rogers vibe that can soothe a savage beast.

I can't help thinking that the cat is the professor's familiar. He even calls it Merlin.