The future of French

[Cainntear]

Is it just me, or does the tinting in that image trick others into thinking it's about Belgium...?

[Le Baron]

I heard a 10 minute thing on France Inter about Barbara Cassin, appointed to this committee. The discussion was really about contrasting the typical Academy restrictiveness and obsession with 'correctness' with the notion of how a 'global' language exists in many different iterations.

Of course these 'Frenches' are already a reality. It's only "France" in the form of the Academy (and sundry other organisations) which still believes it 'owns' French as a standard in a way that e.g. the UK long ago gave up any real idea that it 'owns' English and is the only measure of English. Even if there is grudging acceptance of American-English and diverse iterations. I don't think France will ever do that.

[Carmody]

French both past and future......
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231030-macron-opposes-gender-neutral-writing-as-he-opens-language-museum

[dml130]

Mali removes French as its official language

Mali, a country in West Africa, has removed French from being the official language of communication to being a working language following the implementation of its new constitution.

It looks like Burkina Faso is following in Mali's footsteps:

Burkina abandons French as an official language

Among the "major innovations" of this new text is "the establishment of national languages ​​as official languages ​​in place of French which becomes the working language".

Earlier this year, Mali, governed like Burkina by the military and which also maintains terrible relations with France, had modified its Constitution by referendum and reserved the same fate for the French.

[Le Baron]

As Africa slowly shakes off French neocolonialism there's going to be a knock-on effect of this. I don't think French is going to be legislated away in places where it has been taught to several generations, but legislation for schools and demoting French as the language of government will make it gradually fade in some of these places.

I suspect many of the elites will retain it (like elites in India/Pakistan retained English). This was always the case anyway. The man and woman 'in the street' usually speaks one or more African languages as the daily means of communication. If you watch Senegal TV there are many reports where everyone is just speaking Wolof, which is the actual lingua-franca of Senegal considering the 'native' speakers number less than half the population. French is a 'boss' language of the elite, government and media.

The French language bodies have often trumpeted the 'future of French' as being in Africa. They seem to use this to bolster the idea that French is somehow just as influential as English at an international level. This will probably crumble as the 21st century progresses.

[DaveAgain]

Of course these 'Frenches' are already a reality. It's only "France" in the form of the Academy (and sundry other organisations) which still believes it 'owns' French as a standard in a way that e.g. the UK long ago gave up any real idea that it 'owns' English and is the only measure of English. Even if there is grudging acceptance of American-English and diverse iterations. I don't think France will ever do that.

I watched a video about a new grammar book of World-French yesterday, La Grande Grammaire du français.

As Africa slowly shakes off French neocolonialism there's going to be a knock-on effect of this. I don't think French is going to be legislated away in places where it has been taught to several generations, but legislation for schools and demoting French as the language of government will make it gradually fade in some of these places.

I think many of the former French African colonies were obliged to make French the language of education in their various treaties of independence, so I'm not sure how easy that would be.

[Iversen]

I think many of the former French African colonies were obliged to make French the language of education in their various treaties of independence, so I'm not sure how easy that would be.

Would the various military governments that have popped up in Western Africa care about that? Their basic problem would be that a switch to English (or Russian!) would be extremely costly and cumbersome, so they would probably choose just to let their local version French live its own quiet life until it fizzles out as in South Eastern Asia.

As for the French Academy: I don't see it having any particular influence on Québecquois - the influence there comes from English. And feu monsieur Senghor from Senegal was probably the last representative ever from Africa in that academy.

[DaveAgain]

I think many of the former French African colonies were obliged to make French the language of education in their various treaties of independence, so I'm not sure how easy that would be.

Would the various military governments that have popped up in Western Africa care about that? Their basic problem would be that a switch to English (or Russian!) would be extremely costly and cumbersome, so they would probably choose just to let their local version French live its own quiet life until it fizzles out as in South Eastern Asia.

If changing the language used for education requires a revolution, then that's a hard change to make.

It may be that the original independence treaties with France mean that there exists a legal lever that can be used by institutions that benefit from the preference for French to prevent or slow peaceful change.

[Le Baron]

If changing the language used for education requires a revolution, then that's a hard change to make.

It may be that the original independence treaties with France mean that there exists a legal lever that can be used by institutions that benefit from the preference for French to prevent or slow peaceful change.

It seems to me they will just tear up those treaties as they should. The 'coups' enabling this seem to be have occurred with very little struggle and appear to have a broad base of support. The things the historical French government got the African 'ex'-colonies to sign up to (including conning them into using the CFA) was really just scandalous. It is that rather than the language which has been the undoing of all this, but the language is always a more visible and immediate thing upon which to focus as a point of rebellion.

It is wrong to make people pursue education in a language other than the one spoken among the people and bound to the land. I realise that in several African countries there are already competing languages, though it should be one or more of those taking the lead, not imposed French. I agree with Iversen that it will more likely be sidelined by government policy until it weakens like in Vietnam. Or like Dutch in Indonesia.

[Cainntear]

I suspect many of the elites will retain it (like elites in India/Pakistan retained English). This was always the case anyway. The man and woman 'in the street' usually speaks one or more African languages as the daily means of communication.

I reckon the dynamics are a bit different from India and Pakistan. For one thing, the Mughal Hindustan was pretty well developed before we invaded and messed everything up (silk road, and all that), so after independence it was a pretty weighty trading force. Consider that when looking for a comparator in the former British Empire, you turned to India and Pakistan and not any of the British colonies in Africa, which are far closer comparators to French African colonies.

Regardless, whether Africa or Asia, former British colonies sustained English in the education system, but by the time the former French colonies started talking about losing the French to bolster a national identity, English had grown to a dominant world language and former British colonies were no longer likely to look on it as a symbol of past oppression.
That's very different in former French Africa, because French is being seen more and more as another obstacle between schoolkids and mastery of English.