Balancing language interests with other left-brained interestes

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dEhiN
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Balancing language interests with other left-brained interestes

Postby dEhiN » Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:38 pm

As the title implies, I'd like to hear your thoughts on balancing language interests with other left-brained interests. For me, I also like computer programming and am currently taking some online courses for that. I've found though that there seems to be an internal tug-of-war between the language nerd in me and the computer programming nerd in me. I don't know if it's because they are both generally left-brained activities (in terms of the analytic, problem-solving and logic skills needed for both activities), but it's like I can't find a way to juggle both in a balanced way. What I mean specifically is that, when I'm doing language study, that's all I want to do and the thought of switching focus to computer programming isn't appealing. When I'm doing programming instead, the opposite happens. Can anyone relate?
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Re: Balancing language interests with other left-brained interestes

Postby einzelne » Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:09 pm

I'm really not sure that language learning is about "analytic, problem-solving and logic skills". Over the course of the years I came to the conclusion that language learning is one of the dumbest activities. At the end of the day, it's all about exposure, rote memorization, and development of certain automatisms. That's why it drives me nuts when people equate polyglottery with intellect. There's simply no correlation.

Are you sure that you're approaching language learning in the most efficient way? Because I can easily read a book or watch a movie or TV series in my target language even when my brain is fried. But you need to get to this stage first and it takes time. I don't know your situation but I see that you listed several languages but they are all around A and B levels. How about sticking to one of them for a time being and getting it to a C level, i.e. the level when you are comfortable with reading/listening original content?
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Re: Balancing language interests with other left-brained interestes

Postby dEhiN » Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:49 pm

einzelne wrote:I'm really not sure that language learning is about "analytic, problem-solving and logic skills". Over the course of the years I came to the conclusion that language learning is one of the dumbest activities. At the end of the day, it's all about exposure, rote memorization, and development of certain automatisms.

I can see your point; I guess expression in a language is a different thing, but learning a language is more like what you wrote.

einzelne wrote:Are you sure that you're approaching language learning in the most efficient way? Because I can easily read a book or watch a movie or TV series in my target language even when my brain is fried. But you need to get to this stage first and it takes time. I don't know your situation but I see that you listed several languages but they are all around A and B levels. How about sticking to one of them for a time being and getting it to a C level, i.e. the level when you are comfortable with reading/listening original content?

That's the hope with French eventually, but even if I were to stick to one language, getting to the stage where I can consume input in a target language like I would in my native language is the part that requires one to actively work on things. What you're describing about you being able to read a book, etc., when your brain is fried is no different from me in English. But, at that point, I no longer really need to learn my target language since I can then use it for expression, communication and entertainment consumption.

I've been down this road before on another language forum about "sticking to one language" versus "studying several at one time". My initial post though wasn't about that. However, I do like your different view on language learning. Viewing it as one of the dumbest activites doesn't quite work for me, but a spin that does work for me is that a good part of the learning/studying process is just "putting in the reps". Sometimes those reps I guess can be done passively (akin to someone doing bicep curls sitting on a couch while watching TV), and other times it has be done actively. Anyway, thanks!
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Re: Balancing language interests with other left-brained interests

Postby luke » Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:57 pm

dEhiN wrote:I do like your different view on language learning. Viewing it as one of the dumbest activities doesn't quite work for me, but a spin that does work for me is that a good part of the learning/studying process is just "putting in the reps".

I can relate to approaching things with a single-minded obsessiveness.

There is an important stage where you can start using Wikipedia and YouTube in your target language(s) as an actual left-brain resource, rather than simply a tool for comprehensible input. That may start to come at a "B" level, rather than "C".

There's always the challenge with technology stuff that the best, most comprehensible stuff is in your native language. Depending on your target language and goals though, TL can provide long term resources if you maintain the discipline to start and continue using them. You've got some "big" languages on your list. It is possible to find resources to use in other left-brain endeavors.

I've found using the TL resources easiest to begin dipping into when I've got a "low stakes" left brain investigation going on.
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Re: Balancing language interests with other left-brained interests

Postby dEhiN » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:25 am

luke wrote:It is possible to find resources to use in other left-brain endeavors.

I can get this. For example, the code editor I use for programming, I've switched it to French. Obviously the programming language syntax itself is English-based, but all the eeditor's menus and the like are in French.

luke wrote:I've found using the TL resources easiest to begin dipping into when I've got a "low stakes" left brain investigation going on.

Could you give an example of a "low stakes" left brain activity?
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Re: Balancing language interests with other left-brained interestes

Postby philomath » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:55 am

I really struggle to balance language-learning with my other hobbies. In particular I enjoy creative writing, but if I don't stop myself I'll spend all of my free time on languages instead. I've started giving myself rules in order to create more balance. For example this month I have to work on writing before I study any languages for the day.
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Re: Balancing language interests with other left-brained interests

Postby luke » Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:03 am

dEhiN wrote:
luke wrote:I've found using the TL resources easiest to begin dipping into when I've got a "low stakes" left brain investigation going on.

Could you give an example of a "low stakes" left brain activity?

Watching a youtube video on some facet health, hobbies, history or "books".

When I'm on a conference call and someone tosses out a term from their domain of specialty - which may be an acronym - I first figure out WTH they're referring too, then read a Wikipedia article about it during the call rather than just hearing Charlie Brown's teacher squawking. This would be a situation where I need to understand overall what is being discussed, and by figuring out the acronym and starting read about it, I know I'm already better informed than 90% of the other people on the call.
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Re: Balancing language interests with other left-brained interestes

Postby Le Baron » Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:35 pm

dEhiN wrote:I can see your point; I guess expression in a language is a different thing, but learning a language is more like what you wrote.

Well, a good deal of ordinary language isn't very creative either once it's under your belt. It's mostly a reflex of a lot of fixed speech. Being creative with language is a different thing.

However you seem to be saying two opposite things, that it's like 'logic' or perhaps reason, however a lot of language isn't just logic; it's full of rather illogical curveballs and is messy. On the other hand you seem to be saying it's not just repetitions, but 'creative'.

Personally I think it's a bit of both. It's popular mythology putting these things into boxes as if they're something certain 'types' do..the 'nerds'. I used to run into the same thing at school where certain teachers believed all the mathematics students would automatically be great musicians because they quickly worked out theory and notation. Doesn't work like that.
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Re: Balancing language interests with other left-brained interestes

Postby iguanamon » Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:24 pm

A language is not a logical exercise. It is not an equation to be solved. If it were, we could just memorize words and plug and chug them like a cipher code. Language (natural language) is a naturally evolving human construct. Learning it beyond the basics is more of an art than it is a science. Sometimes people coming from a more technical background and mindset have a hard time accepting this. They want to break the process down to actionable steps with clear metrics, e.g.: learn the most frequent 20,000 words; enter everything into srs. Read a book not to get a feel for language but to mine sentences for srs. It sounds logical, intuitive. It must work. It most often doesn't lead to learning a language to a high level.

Learning a language is about getting used to it. It is about failure, and learning from failure. It is about repetition in different contexts to make words and concepts more easy to retain. It's about consistency ("90% of life is just showing up). It's about persistence. I can't tell you how many books to read, how many hours to listen, how much to speak, how much to write. Nobody can. There is no metric in "read a lot, listen a lot, write often and speak as often as you can". There's no percentage to give for each skill. This doesn't fit with approaching language-learning in the same way as mathematics or chemistry.

Right brain, left brain?! All brain?! I can't tell you. I don't think the process fits neatly into a box.
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Re: Balancing language interests with other left-brained interestes

Postby Iversen » Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:45 pm

I spend a lot of time on music, and because much of the time is spent on organizing my collection in a database with minutes and names and composer info and musicians and themes I also consider this a partially left-brain activity. And then there are of course the sudokus etc. I do while cooking. Many years ago I was also quite proficient in maths, but I haven't kept that hobby alive. I stopped playing chess when I felt the tentation to develop ambitions - and by the way, I also worked as a computer something-whizz in public service for 29 years, but now I'm retired.

I don't feel that those things compete in any other way than by monopolizing my time - it's not like they eat away at my brain, leaving only a tired half-morsel for the next in line. And one thing more: I don't feel that they refuse to cooperate with my right brain hemisphere - except maybe in music: I prefer instrumental music, and that kind of music doesn't prevent me from thinking in words, whereas any kind of music competes with any kind of music and words in strong languages sabotages thinking in words from a weaker language. Actually I also have creative hobbies, like writing here at Llorg, music and ... well, if turpentine didn't stink I would probably also be painting more than I do. And travelling, but that competes with everything else because I can't squeeze my whole flat plus my computer down into a small handbag.

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