Minimum proficiency level of language

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firewheel
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Minimum proficiency level of language

Postby firewheel » Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:10 pm

Hi Friends,

For most language courses, there are levels like Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced etc.

If a person is applying for a job which requires to be proficient in a certain language, what is the minimum proficiency level of language that is required?

Also, if a person wants to watch shows or read books in that language, what is the minimum proficiency level of language that is required?

Thank you.
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BeaP
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Re: Minimum proficiency level of language

Postby BeaP » Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:01 pm

If proficiency is required for a job, it's usually a C1 level. It means that you have to speak completely fluently with some minor mistakes that don't affect comprehension. You need to be able to put across information in a well-structured and clear way. You have to be familiar with formal language: be able to give a presentation, write formal letters and reports.

When it comes to TV shows and reading, there is no requirement. You can do whatever you want. Some people tolerate unknown words and a lack of understanding better, some need to look everything up in a dictionary. It depends on your personality and habits. Also some shows and books are extremely easy to follow and some are hard even for native speakers. I'd say that a B1 knowledge is generally enough for starting to enjoy the most popular native media. You don't need to speak and write well in order to do these things, so you can start with a basic passive knowledge of the most frequent grammar structures (present, 2 past tenses, future, imperative) and vocabulary (connected to everyday life, personal interests, informal usage).

Don't believe what language courses say about their level. It rarely gives relevant information. The only exceptions are course book series published by the biggest monolingual textbook publishers labelled from A1 to C2.
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reineke
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Re: Minimum proficiency level of language

Postby reineke » Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:23 pm

What you didn't tell us is that you want to watch TV and read books in Korean. "Language A," right? The CEFR scale is best applied to European languages but it's still useful. B2 is sufficient for many jobs and even lower than that for immigration to various European countries. Professional Korean. Gee, I don't know. You should really use the search function and take a look at what others are doing.

https://rm.coe.int/CoERMPublicCommonSea ... 168045bb52

Level 1 proficiency for the TOPIK requires a vocabulary of around 800 words, with testees able to introduce themselves, purchase items, and engage in other basic daily language activity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_of_P ... _in_Korean
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Re: Minimum proficiency level of language

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:48 pm

Minimum? why would anyone want the minimum? You want the correct level for the outcome you want. The minimum possible is that you can communicate. What that means is context dependent.

firewheel wrote:If a person is applying for a job which requires to be proficient in a certain language, what is the minimum proficiency level of language that is required?

You have to be able to understand the people you speak to and to be able to speak back to them. So assuming the language requirement came with a specific type of job, the ability would require that you can work in the language with regard to the job. So more than just: 'yes, no, hi, bye, thank you, three coffees please'.

firewheel wrote:Also, if a person wants to watch shows or read books in that language, what is the minimum proficiency level of language that is required?

As BeaP said some are willing to tolerate (sometimes many) unknown words, but I'd differ in saying there is some level if you really want to watch/listen to media and read books properly. Everything is a learning hill so everyone must start somewhere. To be 'able' to read and watch TV 'comfortably' if you are A1, forget it. A2, some stuff, but not much. From B1 onwards you get a lot more out of it, but it takes time to accumulate vocabulary and language familiarity.
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BeaP
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Re: Minimum proficiency level of language

Postby BeaP » Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:12 pm

Oops, I think I've misunderstood the word 'proficient' in the case of the work-related question. Firms looking for applicants usually specify the level of the language knowledge they need: for example as 'basic', 'conversational' or 'advanced'. I only thought about the highest level, maybe because the Cambridge C2 exam is called Proficiency. Sorry. The requirement at a workplace can virtually be anything, but usually it's at least an A1, meaning you can give basic information to the tourists for example.
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Re: Minimum proficiency level of language

Postby luke » Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:26 pm

When I saw the word "proficiency", I thought of the ILR levels 2 and 3. Reading some other responses, I can see 1 and 4 also be "proficient", depending on the demands of the job.

Wikipedia comparison of CEFR and ILR scales.

I'd think B1 to C1, depending on the position. B1 for entry level or where communication isn't a significant part of the job. C1 or C2 if communication is quite or very important.
Last edited by luke on Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minimum proficiency level of language

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:37 pm

BeaP wrote:The requirement at a workplace can virtually be anything, but usually it's at least an A1, meaning you can give basic information to the tourists for example.

I'm not so sure about that. If the people you're giving information to speak more of the language than you do, there's a problem! How much information can an A1 student give?

Any employer must be looking for B1 and above (preferably above), because they're surely not using it to send an employee to buy ice-cream or anything.
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BeaP
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Re: Minimum proficiency level of language

Postby BeaP » Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:59 pm

Le Baron wrote:How much information can an A1 student give?

Any employer must be looking for B1 and above (preferably above), because they're surely not using it to send an employee to buy ice-cream or anything.


I might have a different point of view because my native language isn't English. Here in Hungary an assistant in a shop or a cashier at a train station has a huge advantage if they speak A1 English and/or German. I even think that the CEFR levels were defined with having these necessities in mind. An A1 speaker can give directions, can talk about the time and is able to learn a limited number of phrases connected to the job in question, like 'Do you need a bag?', 'Please validate your ticket.' I know it's not perfect, but it's much better than nothing, and it works most of the time. People with fluent English don't want to be shop assistants or bus drivers, and we can't expect tourists to learn Hungarian. B1 seems to be the minimum is an office environment, where you can't work with a fixed set of phrases most of the time.
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Re: Minimum proficiency level of language

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:16 pm

BeaP wrote:I might have a different point of view because my native language isn't English. Here in Hungary an assistant in a shop or a cashier at a train station has a huge advantage if they speak A1 English and/or German. I even think that the CEFR levels were defined with having these necessities in mind. An A1 speaker can give directions, can talk about the time and is able to learn a limited number of phrases connected to the job in question, like 'Do you need a bag?', 'Please validate your ticket.' I know it's not perfect, but it's much better than nothing, and it works most of the time. People with fluent English don't want to be shop assistants or bus drivers, and we can't expect tourists to learn Hungarian. B1 seems to be the minimum is an office environment, where you can't work with a fixed set of phrases most of the time.

Yes that's a fair point. The tasks of the job will matter and something is much better than nothing. I'd be concerned about getting into a 'situation'. E.g. where you say to a tourist 'do you want a bag' and they say something unexpected, like 'oh we've already got one'. I'm sure people can navigate around these little problems, but they're a nuisance.
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Re: Minimum proficiency level of language

Postby kelvin921019 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:02 am

If a Company is expecting you to be proficient in certain language, apart from language certificate, they will probably conduct part of their interviews in that language.
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