Learning languages vs. depression

[rdearman]

Let's bring the thread back to language discussion and the original posters question.

I was hoping I won't need creating this topic, but...
I don't know if anyone of you had such struggles, but... Do you have any ideas how to motivate yourself in depression? How to learn languages when you feel you don't want to do anything? And it's not like you feel you don't feel the passion for languages anymore, it's just... You rather don't feel the passion for life anymore.

[tangleweeds]

Thank you, rdearman. This is a particularly difficult time for those of us who are facing the holidays after the loss of loved ones.

But back on topic, there's the common line about depression, motivation, and language learning that drives me insane with "you just don't get it": people saying "If you want it enough you'll find a way to do it." It's so frustrating to hear this from people who think depression is like ordinary sadness. A huge part (for me at least) of the torture of depression is the inability to plan and execute any of the actions I care about or enjoy most in life. I can condemn or cajole myself all day long, and the effect is the same: I'm still sitting staring that the same wall. It's like a paralysis of thought or volition, and it's hideously boring, and then goes on for months.

[tomgosse]

Thank you, rdearman. This is a particularly difficult time for those of us who are facing the holidays after the loss of loved ones.

That is so true. Until you've been there you have no idea how tough it is.

But back on topic, there's the common line about depression, motivation, and language learning that drives me insane with "you just don't get it": people saying "If you want it enough you'll find a way to do it." It's so frustrating to hear this from people who think depression is like ordinary sadness. A huge part (for me at least) of the torture of depression is the inability to plan and execute any of the actions I care about or enjoy most in life. I can condemn or cajole myself all day long, and the effect is the same: I'm still sitting staring that the same wall. It's like a paralysis of thought or volition, and it's hideously boring, and then goes on for months.

Even with medication and therapy it can be a real struggle. One of the troubles with depression is that you can feel worthless and unable to accomplish anything. Learning a language helps deal with those negative feelings. My therapist is the one person who keeps me on track with my language studies. When I feel as if I'm making no progress, he will ask me, "How much more do you know, and can do, than last year?" When I honestly look at that question I realize that I have made a great amount of progress.

One of my problems, and a problem of a number of depressed people, is perfectionism. That is, I expect to get it right the first time, all the time, and any failure no matter how small seems to say that I'm a failure. Of course it's not true. But, knowing it intellectually, and knowing it emotionally can be two totally different things.

[Monox D. I-Fly]

people saying "If you want it enough you'll find a way to do it."

Well, it works for me. Though it usually takes very looooooooooooooooooooooooong time to the point that I don't even want it anymore, so I guess it is subverted.

[Bao]

Well, it works for me. Though it usually takes very looooooooooooooooooooooooong time to the point that I don't even want it anymore, so I guess it is subverted.

I guess then there's a lot of things I just never wanted enough.

[LMAshton]

I'm with Bao.

There are a lot of things I've had to give up because of chronic illness and pain. Like walking up stairs or holding a job.

For me, it's important to be realistic about what is possible given my own personal set of circumstances. There are some things that I will never be able to do ever again, and it doesn't matter how much I might want it. It's just not going to happen and no amount of willpower can change that. Mourn the loss and then move on to focus on things I actually can do.

I know I'm using chronic illness and pain as my example when the OP is talking depression, and they are different birds. They have many similarities, though, especially when it comes to coping strategies. The trick here is to figure out what coping strategies work for you. And to realize that what works for a coping strategy today or even right now isn't necessarily going to be the same coping strategy that will work tomorrow or in an hour from now.

[tomgosse]

I'm with Bao.

There are a lot of things I've had to give up because of chronic illness and pain. Like walking up stairs or holding a job.

For me, it's important to be realistic about what is possible given my own personal set of circumstances. There are some things that I will never be able to do ever again, and it doesn't matter how much I might want it. It's just not going to happen and no amount of willpower can change that. Mourn the loss and then move on to focus on things I actually can do.

I know I'm using chronic illness and pain as my example when the OP is talking depression, and they are different birds. They have many similarities, though, especially when it comes to coping strategies. The trick here is to figure out what coping strategies work for you. And to realize that what works for a coping strategy today or even right now isn't necessarily going to be the same coping strategy that will work tomorrow or in an hour from now.

I feel that chronic illness, pain, and depression are closely related. I have Chronic Kidney Disease and I know that when I'm in pain I'm depressed. I too have to accept my physical limitations, and I know that I'm not going to be able to take the trip to Paris that I would love to.

For me, language learning is how I expand my horizons and "travel", and thanks to the Internet I can go on a virtual vacation. Thank you Google Street View!

[Monox D. I-Fly]

I was hoping I won't need creating this topic, but...
I don't know if anyone of you had such struggles, but... Do you have any ideas how to motivate yourself in depression? How to learn languages when you feel you don't want to do anything? And it's not like you feel you don't feel the passion for languages anymore, it's just... You rather don't feel the passion for life anymore.

Well, usually I just make an excuse and convince myself that no matter how little, at least I have learned something today. Like these scenarios below.
Day 1: Today I know the Arabic word for "above".
Day 2: Finally I can write the Kanji of "boku" properly.
Day 3: I won't mistake how to write g and n in Hangeul anymore.
Day 4: Finally I can write the letter zeta!

[Brun Ugle]

I've never made any secrets about having both autism and bipolar disorder. I've often written about it in my log. So, I have a fair idea about how difficult it can be. I find language learning to be easiest when I'm in a neutral state or perhaps mildly down, but not really clinically depressed. I've suffered from depression since I was about 11 at least and I'm now over 40, so I've learned to accept that it is just a part of me and I can never completely get rid of it. I do my best to limit it though. One thing I've been using this past year is the site/app called Habitica (formerly known as Habit RPG). It allows you to build habits by making yourself tasks and as you check them off each day you win gold which you can use to buy things like armor and helmets for your avatar. You also can get eggs and hatching potions and food which you can use to hatch pets and raise them to be mounts. It sounds a little silly, but it is actually quite useful. The RPG element makes it enough fun that you do it, but not so much fun that it takes over your life and makes you spend all your time on the site instead of doing the things you're supposed to. I find it's best to build up habits gradually. It's also much easier if you do it when you aren't already depressed. If you are depressed, you have to take it even more gradually. Anyway, there are a number of things that studies show reduce or limit depression: eating lots of veg, exercise, meditation, journal keeping, mental activity like language learning, etc. I've built some of them gradually into my day. I think it helps at least a little. Medicine doesn't work on me; I get no benefit, only wild and dangerous side-effects. So, I have had to find some other way.

The mind is a very strange thing. I can understand why people who've never been depressed can't understand why you can't just pull yourself together. Even though I've been depressed many times, when I'm not depressed, it's very hard to imagine it or understand it. However, it's important to remember that our brains control everything about us. I know that I can be in good shape physically and when depression hits, suddenly I feel like I'm walking through water all the time. That's the effort it takes to move. Sometimes I forget how to move at all, or how to speak. I can spend an hour looking at my hands, not sure if they're mine because I can't move them. Even if I had been exercising regularly and in good shape, I suddenly become like an old lady and just walking to the store is so hard that I have to sit down and take a rest on the bench in front before I can go in. Sometimes, I don't know who I am. On the other side, I've been in relatively bad shape physically and when mania hit, I could suddenly do anything. I went hiking up a mountain with some colleagues, many of whom were in much better shape than I. Yet, I didn't find it difficult and afterward, when they were all exhausted, I was skipping in circles around them wanting to go up again.

My brain does these things all by itself. The idea that I could simply decide to have that kind of strength or energy by some kind of willpower if I actually wanted it enough, is a bit like expecting someone in a wheelchair to stop being so lazy and get up and walk.

I wish I could give you good advice about how to get better, but I can't. I really don't know what works. And whatever works today, or seems to, might not work tomorrow. Depression is very tricky like that. All I can say is what works statistically in large studies, like I mentioned above, and say that if you try to gradually work them into your day, it might eventually help. Or it might delay the next depression or make it lighter or easier to recover from. I find that making strict study plans is not a good idea for me because I might not be able to achieve them and I might stress too much trying to. I've learned to be flexible and to take breaks. I've also learned to limit my study time and make sure I do other important things like exercise. I find that studying obsessively can block out the depression in the moment, but at some point I have to put the books down and go to bed and then it all comes back. So, it's better to be a little less obsessive and to spend time on other things that might make me better.

Sorry, this is mostly just rambling and probably not much help.