Abby Screenshot Reader and DeepL make your own parallel text

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einzelne
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Re: Abby Screenshot Reader and DeepL make your own parallel text

Postby einzelne » Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:44 am

Nogon wrote: "Begrüßen" somehow implies that the one who does it, is at home, or so to say "owns" the place where they meet, while the other one is coming to that place.


Fascinating! I didn't know that. Thank you for explanation. Is begrüßen the only verb which behaves like that druing subject-verb inversion? Or is it some grammar pattern? I'd love to see the description of this in some grammar book.
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Re: Abby Screenshot Reader and DeepL make your own parallel text

Postby Kraut » Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:54 am

einzelne wrote:
Nogon wrote: "Begrüßen" somehow implies that the one who does it, is at home, or so to say "owns" the place where they meet, while the other one is coming to that place.


Fascinating! I didn't know that. Thank you for explanation. Is begrüßen the only verb which behaves like that druing subject-verb inversion? Or is it some grammar pattern? I'd love to see the description of this in some grammar book.


It's a rule:
"Auf dem Gang fand sie, es (mich, dich, uns, euch) ein Zimmermädchen."
Only "sie" and "es" (f.ex. das Kind) allow two interpretations because they can both be nominative and accusative, as well as the noun at the end.

another example.

Sie hatte ihre Familie verloren und dann suchte sie ihre Familie.
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Re: Abby Screenshot Reader and DeepL make your own parallel text

Postby einzelne » Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:33 am

Kraut wrote:It's a rule:
"Auf dem Gang fand sie, es (mich, dich, uns, euch) ein Zimmermädchen."


This word order works only with pronouns, right? Because if you put a noun or a proper name you get the following:

Auf dem Gang fand die Frau/Veronika ein Zimmermädchen.
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Re: Abby Screenshot Reader and DeepL make your own parallel text

Postby Kraut » Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:45 am

einzelne wrote:
Kraut wrote:It's a rule:
"Auf dem Gang fand sie, es (mich, dich, uns, euch) ein Zimmermädchen."


This word order works only with pronouns, right? Because if you put a noun or a proper name you get the following:

Auf dem Gang fand die Frau/Veronika ein Zimmermädchen.


Yes, "ein Zimmermädchen" cannot be subject here. And if you want to make "ein Zimmermädchen" the subject, you must say "Ein Zimmermädchen fand Veronika auf dem Gang."
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Re: Abby Screenshot Reader and DeepL make your own parallel text

Postby Dragon27 » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:11 am

Nogon wrote:"Begrüßen" somehow implies that the one who does it, is at home, or so to say "owns" the place where they meet, while the other one is coming to that place.

So kind of like "to welcome"?
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Re: Abby Screenshot Reader and DeepL make your own parallel text

Postby einzelne » Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:57 pm

Kraut wrote:Yes, "ein Zimmermädchen" cannot be subject here. And if you want to make "ein Zimmermädchen" the subject, you must say "Ein Zimmermädchen fand Veronika auf dem Gang."


I checked it in my grammar book. It says that pronouns in Acc and Dat should be put after the verb. However, if the subject is also the pronoun, then you put them after the subject.

Zum Glück hat es ihm der Professor erklärt.

But:

Zum Glück hat er es ihm erklärt

Right?

(PS. Boy, it's been a long time since I opened my German grammar book. I guess, it's time to refresh my memory! It would be a perfect Xmas read. Thank you for your clarifications, to both of you.)
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Re: Abby Screenshot Reader and DeepL make your own parallel text

Postby RyanSmallwood » Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:09 pm

I don't worry so much about occasional machine translation mistakes from TL to NL, even when you're working with just TL by itself you'll probably have wrong guesses about what things mean, but as your level gets higher you figure them out, and you can often use context to override anything the translation says. I think the only way you can acquire something incorrectly, is if the mistake is consistently mistranslated every time, and you get no other correct exposure or clues for some reason. Obviously human translation is always better, but if there's a text I'm really interested to get into early on and no human translation exists, I think machine translation saves way more time than is potentially lost by seeing some mistakes. And again as long as you have context and are learning from other sources, I think it will be difficult to acquire any seriously damaging mistakes in the long term.

Machine translation NL to TL is a lot riskier though and I wouldn't do that.
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Re: Abby Screenshot Reader and DeepL make your own parallel text

Postby einzelne » Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:50 pm

RyanSmallwood wrote:I don't worry so much about occasional machine translation mistakes from TL to NL, even when you're working with just TL by itself you'll probably have wrong guesses about what things mean, but as your level gets higher you figure them out, and you can often use context to override anything the translation says.


To be clear, what I argued initially is using machine translation as a learning tool when you're a beginner precisely because it will be hard for an inexperience learner to figure out mistakes. (Well, as my example demonstrated, sometimes even experienced learner can mess things up:) That's why I would rather use reliable learning sources with translation. In case of languages like German, it's not hard to find them.
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