虫儿飞 - Help with understanding points of song

General discussion about learning languages
JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

虫儿飞 - Help with understanding points of song

Postby JLS » Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:48 am



A native Chinese friend sent this to me, since I want to teach my children Chinese using real native Chinese resources. I fell in love with the song myself :) Beautiful use of sound and rhyme. Pleasant to sing. It gives a sense of the language in some way, albeit not everyday use of the language.

So, I do have questions concerning the use of words, and some of the imagery used. Still new to use of vocabulary, and I suspect there are uses of idioms and imagery that would click better with an Easterner than a Westerner. So, I'm not looking for just vocabulary insight, but cultural as well.

Going through the lines:

黑黑的天空低垂
- What is the effect of the doubling of 黑?
- What exactly does 低垂 mean?

亮亮的繁星相随
- What is the doubling of 亮?
- What is 繁? Google just wants to combine it with 星 as one word. How does 繁 modify 星?

虫儿飞,虫儿飞
- Is虫儿 firefly, or just bug?

你在思念谁
- I hear this translated "Who are you missing" or "Who is on your mind?" How does 在 function to make the translation so?

天上的星星流泪
地上的玫瑰枯萎
- Why do the stars weep, and why does the rose wither?

冷风吹,冷风吹
只要有你陪
- Gets translated "So long as you are with me". How does one come to this translation?

虫儿飞花儿睡
- Why does the rose sleep in this song?

一双又一对才美
How is this translated? Google Translate, "A pair is beautiful." How does each word contribute?

不怕天黑只怕心碎
- Do I understand 只 to be a word of contrast?

不管累不累
- Some translations, "Doesn't matter if I'm tired or not." Is this right? If so, what is significance?

也不管东南西北
- 也, is this equivalent to "nor, neither"; as in, "Doesn't matter if... nor if..."?
- Translated "Whether southeast or northwest." Idiom for "any place" or "anywhere"? Why those words?
1 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

bolaobo
Orange Belt
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:48 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Languages: English (N), Mandarin Chinese, German, French
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19845
x 1089

Re: 虫儿飞 - Help with understanding points of song

Postby bolaobo » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:59 pm

黑黑的天空低垂
- What is the effect of the doubling of 黑?
- What exactly does 低垂 mean?


It is effectively the same meaning of 黑, but slightly feminine or affected sounding. In this case, it's probably just to go with the melody better. Such reduplication is common in Mandarin.

低垂 just means to "hang low" or "droop". It's a commonly used descriptive verb for clouds, branches, sky...

亮亮的繁星相随
- What is the doubling of 亮?
- What is 繁? Google just wants to combine it with 星 as one word. How does 繁 modify 星?


For the doubling, see above.

繁 is describing the stars as numerous and densely-packed. It's a commonly used adjective for stars.

虫儿飞,虫儿飞
- Is虫儿 firefly, or just bug?


It can be any kind of bug. Firefly is 萤火虫. I don't know the wider context of this song, but it's possible that 虫儿 is understood to be a firefly from the context. But with no context, no Mandarin speaker would assume that 虫儿 is a firefly.

你在思念谁
- I hear this translated "Who are you missing" or "Who is on your mind?" How does 在 function to make the translation so?


在 expresses an ongoing action up to the present, in other words it's Mandarin's present continuous tense. 你思念谁 could be translated as "Who do you miss" while 你在思念谁 expresses "Who is on your mind/who are you missing right now?"

天上的星星流泪
地上的玫瑰枯萎
- Why do the stars weep, and why does the rose wither?


It's just a poetic way to describe the stars and the rose. Not sure what else to say except that those verbs are commonly used to describe stars and flowers.


冷风吹,冷风吹
只要有你陪
- Gets translated "So long as you are with me". How does one come to this translation?


只要 is a structure used to mean "as long as". What follows is the conditional statement.

只要有你陪 could be literally translated as "as long as (I) have you accompanying) where the I is omitted but would usually be before the 有.

虫儿飞花儿睡
- Why does the rose sleep in this song?


It's just a poetic way to describe the rose as peaceful / serene in contrast to the flying fireflies.


一双又一对才美
How is this translated? Google Translate, "A pair is beautiful." How does each word contribute?


This one is a tough sentence to directly translate and there are several interpretations. Google Translate isn't right.

一双 means one pair. 又 means again, but here expresses a continuous succession of one thing after another.一对 is a synonym that also means "one pair". 才 expresses "then and only then", "just right", or "not until" (among many other meanings). In this case, 才 is giving the nuance that the fact that one pair follows another makes it even more beautiful.

I would translate it as "One pair coming after another is so beautiful".

不怕天黑只怕心碎
- Do I understand 只 to be a word of contrast?


只 literally means "only" and that's basically how it functions here.

不怕....只怕... is a very common structure in Mandarin. What follows 不怕 is something that would generally be considered scary and what follows 只怕 is what the speaker wants to emphasize as the only thing they fear. In this case, it basically means "I'm not (even) afraid of darkness; I'm only afraid of heartbreak.

不管累不累
- Some translations, "Doesn't matter if I'm tired or not." Is this right? If so, what is significance?


That's basically right. 不管 means "no matter". I would translate it as "Regardless of how tired I am..."where what follows is so important to the speaker that even being exhausted wouldn't dampen its importance.

也不管东南西北
- 也, is this equivalent to "nor, neither"; as in, "Doesn't matter if... nor if..."?
- Translated "Whether southeast or northwest." Idiom for "any place" or "anywhere"? Why those words?


It's linked to the previous sentence with 也. Not only does it not matter if one is tired or not, it also doesn't matter where they are in the world. 东南西北 means "all directions" but in this case 不管东南西北 can be understood as "no matter where one is".

东南西北 is just the 4 cardinal directions. In Mandarin, it's common to put words together like this. For example, 男女老少 is literally "men, women, old, and young" but is combined to mean "all kinds of people"
2 x
Perfectionnement Arabe: 11 / 70 New Arabic Grammar: 30 / 51
Le Grec Ancien: 15 / 101
Hindi ohne Mühe: 44 / 54
Le Persan: 85 / 86
Le Turc: 19 / 71
Tobira: 3 / 15

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

Re: 虫儿飞 - Help with understanding points of song

Postby JLS » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:50 pm

That's really helpful, bolaobo.

A few more:

It's just a poetic way to describe the stars and the rose. Not sure what else to say except that those verbs are commonly used to describe stars and flowers.


So with 流泪 is it similar to English when we say the stars twinkle?

I can take 枯萎 as "just is", still wonder why wilting roses are in the song.

This one is a tough sentence to directly translate and there are several interpretations. Google Translate isn't right.

一双 means one pair. 又 means again, but here expresses a continuous succession of one thing after another.一对 is a synonym that also means "one pair". 才 expresses "then and only then", "just right", or "not until" (among many other meanings). In this case, 才 is giving the nuance that the fact that one pair follows another makes it even more beautiful.

I would translate it as "One pair coming after another is so beautiful".


Yes, this was difficult, but I can see it now. Seeing as you said there's other possible translations, I'd be interested if others have an alternative. Doesn't seem like a song for a double date.

It's linked to the previous sentence with 也. Not only does it not matter if one is tired or not, it also doesn't matter where they are in the world. 东南西北 means "all directions" but in this case 不管东南西北 can be understood as "no matter where one is".

东南西北 is just the 4 cardinal directions. In Mandarin, it's common to put words together like this. For example, 男女老少 is literally "men, women, old, and young" but is combined to mean "all kinds of people"


This is why you beware Google Translate. I was trying to figure out why a culture would ever orient itself around Northwest and Southeast.

In the West there's a more northern orientation. The first word in this chain is 东。Is there an eastern orientation in Chinese? Might not matter, since 北 means to rhyme with 累。
0 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

bolaobo
Orange Belt
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:48 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Languages: English (N), Mandarin Chinese, German, French
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19845
x 1089

Re: 虫儿飞 - Help with understanding points of song

Postby bolaobo » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:55 pm

I've never been one for poetry! I'll try my best :lol:

So with 流泪 is it similar to English when we say the stars twinkle?


Not really. It's not actually a common way to describe stars as far as I know. I believe they're trying to evoke a certain sadness, perhaps using stars to represent the gradual passage of time and impermanence of life.

I can take 枯萎 as "just is", still wonder why wilting roses are in the song.


My interpretation is that 枯萎 is signaling the approach of winter, which in Chinese poetry (not unlike ours), often represents a time of solitude, loneliness, contemplation...it's trying to set the atmosphere and contrast of feelings.

Yes, this was difficult, but I can see it now. Seeing as you said there's other possible translations, I'd be interested if others have an alternative. Doesn't seem like a song for a double date.


I didn't mean the romantic meaning of "pair". Two is traditionally an auspicious number in Chinese culture. It signifies harmony. Things are more beautiful if they come in pairs.

In the West there's a more northern orientation. The first word in this chain is 东。Is there an eastern orientation in Chinese? Might not matter, since 北 means to rhyme with 累。


East, South, West, North is the traditional and by far most common order in Chinese. For example, it is always 东北 when describing northeast and 西南 when describing southwest.
0 x
Perfectionnement Arabe: 11 / 70 New Arabic Grammar: 30 / 51
Le Grec Ancien: 15 / 101
Hindi ohne Mühe: 44 / 54
Le Persan: 85 / 86
Le Turc: 19 / 71
Tobira: 3 / 15

User avatar
smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
.
x 4876

Re: 虫儿飞 - Help with understanding points of song

Postby smallwhite » Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:36 pm

Warning: Not a poetry or literature person.

The lyricist writes Cantonese pop songs. One of the better ones.

Verse 1
黑黑的天空低垂 <-rhyme 1
亮亮的繁星相随 <-rhyme 1
虫儿飞,虫儿飞
你在思念谁 <-rhyme 1

Verse 2
天上的星星流泪 <-rhyme 2
地上的玫瑰枯萎 <-rhyme 2
冷风吹,冷风吹
只要有你陪 <-rhyme 2

> Why do the stars weep, and why does the rose wither?
Verse 1: night scene - night scene - insects fly - you are thinking who
Verse 2: negative scene - negative scene - cold wind blow - as long as have you accompany
No apparent contrast in lines 1+2 vs 5+6, I'd say just different scenes that rhyme.

夜幕低垂 is a typical phrase that means night falls - night screen low drops.

繁星
If you want 1 character there, 亮亮的星相随;
If you want 2 characters there, 亮亮的繁星相随.
繁星 is just a typical 2-character word to mean star and that's pretty and poetic.

> Why does the rose sleep in this song?
Probably for the rhyme. The whole paragraph has -ui -ei rhymes.

> 一双又一对才美
"一双一对" is the typical phrase to describe couples being in pairs. Eg. "I see others 一双一对 and I blah blah blah".
一双 = 一对 = a pair
一双又一对 = a pair and a pair = pairs
You say "I ran and ran" when you actually just ran; you didn't do 2 units of running.
in pairs 才美 = only beautiful in pairs (and not beautiful if not in pairs)
to go with the various stubborness in the last 3 lines:
ONLY beautiful in pairs NO MATTER this and that.
3 x
Dialang or it didn't happen.

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

Re: 虫儿飞 - Help with understanding points of song

Postby JLS » Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:48 pm

These replies are exactly why I wanted to learn an original song. Insight into the culture.

> 一双又一对才美
"一双一对" is the typical phrase to describe couples being in pairs. Eg. "I see others 一双一对 and I blah blah blah".
一双 = 一对 = a pair
一双又一对 = a pair and a pair = pairs
You say "I ran and ran" when you actually just ran; you didn't do 2 units of running.
in pairs 才美 = only beautiful in pairs (and not beautiful if not in pairs)
to go with the various stubborness in the last 3 lines:
ONLY beautiful in pairs NO MATTER this and that.


I think I'm getting the sense. Whatever the night feels like or whatever lies ahead it's the best of all for them to be together. More than just saying, "I'm happy to be with you, whatever else is going on", the fact that it's two of them brings out how special it is, because of how significant a pair in itself is? And so the love and the pair-ness together rule out all hardships, difficulties, and unpleasantness?
0 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

User avatar
smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
.
x 4876

Re: 虫儿飞 - Help with understanding points of song

Postby smallwhite » Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:11 pm

I'm not sure about Mandarin, but with Cantonese, the tones place GREAT restriction on lyric writing, such that meaning/content is often sacrificed, and lyrics are often just semi-coherent phrases that kind of relate to each other in some vague way, if that. Not always worth analysing. In this song where phrase length match and phrases rhyme, even more restrictions.

But anyway, below, I write in English how or what each line contributes to the song's meaning (in my opinion).

黑黑的天空低垂 la la la
亮亮的繁星相随 la la la
虫儿飞,虫儿飞 la la la
你在思念谁 you are thinking who

天上的星星流泪 la la la
地上的玫瑰枯萎 la la la
冷风吹,冷风吹 la la la
只要有你陪 as long as have you accompany

虫儿飞花儿睡 la la la
一双又一对才美 only beautiful in pairs
不怕天黑只怕心碎 only fear heartbreak
不管累不累 no matter what
也不管东南西北 ditto

IMHO, random romantic phrases with no central theme.
3 x
Dialang or it didn't happen.

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

Re: 虫儿飞 - Help with understanding points of song

Postby JLS » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:29 am

Thanks for your thoughts and analysis smallwhite. What you say about there being sappy Mandarin/Cantonese love songs with phrases that only semi-relate to one another in order to make rhyme work... I assure you that this is not only a Chinese phenomenon :) Many Western songs about... anything... are just as empty.
3 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

Re: 虫儿飞 - Help with understanding points of song

Postby JLS » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:40 pm

I spoke with a bookstore clerk who is Chinese. We discussed this song. She tells me it's originally a movie song, and a sad song too (skies crying, etc.). It happened to catch on as a children's song.
1 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals


Return to “General Language Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], themethod and 2 guests