Goals

General discussion about learning languages

Do you have language learning goals?

Strategic goals - can pass a test or do specific things
20
42%
Tactical goals - measuring things
19
40%
No goals
9
19%
 
Total votes: 48

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Le Baron
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Re: Goals

Postby Le Baron » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:16 pm

I'll say at the outset I voted for 'strategic' goals, because I do have 'aims'. They aren't random or without direction, but they aren't minutely timetabled or counted down to the page or word numbers or hours of listening and have no real deadlines. Old news.
The reason for this is similar to that of Deinonysus: I don't want it to be too much like work or, to use a tailoring-derived metaphor, have my work cut out for me. Once it becomes work I'm less motivated. I already have work, I don't need more. I also don't believe, not for one minute, that just setting e.g. a 50-hour goal will deliver the goods just because you set it and did it. You could be doing 50 hours of wrong or 50-hours of pointless.

It doesn't mean I'm trying to avoid putting in effort either. It means I want it to be more like discovery and know that if I feel a bit tired today or this week I won't be panicking about not having fulfilled some pre-planned goal or other. With these types of goals and timetables, once I get halfway and other life events heat up, I end up just going through the motions to get a goal done and not learning very much. So a good third is wasteful.

One last thing (possibly the key to this debate?). To first get going and a foothold in a language you need some structured goals, but I think this is catered for with many good courses. I see that people get rather impatient with courses and start getting carried away with devising extra-curricular plans which often grind to a halt. Then 1 or 2 years later start talking about going through courses to 'fill in gaps'; stuff they could have hammered into place in year one. So yes, have a goal to finish a course or two, then perhaps some goals for books to read and other material for listening and to aim for at least 30 mins discussion a week if you can get it etc etc.

Beyond that you have to start living the language. Daily things like reading the news (as much as you can) in the target language. Watching a few TV programmes a week. Not just films or series, but things like cooking programmes and game shows, the kind of things that familiarise you with how people really speak.

Goals shmoals,
5 x

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luke
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Re: Goals

Postby luke » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:33 pm

Le Baron wrote:I'll say at the outset I voted for 'strategic' goals, because I do have 'aims'.

I don't want it to be too much like work or, to use a tailoring-derived metaphor, have my work cut out for me. Once it becomes work I'm less motivated. I already have work, I don't need more.

Goals shmoals,

You'll love the next poll :)

I appreciate your tailoring metaphor. I had been wondering how you measure things at work. Apparently we have a psychic bond. Jeane Dixon would be proud of us.
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Le Baron
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Re: Goals

Postby Le Baron » Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:24 pm

Oh blimey, where's me crystal ball so I can prepare?!
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Re: Goals

Postby Aloyse » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:49 am

Alright, looking at my New Year list, I did have some measurable tactical goals.
But since I'm failing all of them, I conveniently forgot about them :)

Actually, I use them more as a guideline, for instance I wanted to finish reviewing volume 1 of "Manuel d'Arabe Moderne" but it's not happening so I've switched my MSA practice to Assimil audio tracks. As long as I'm learning something...
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Future me already did it.

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Steve
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Re: Goals

Postby Steve » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:31 pm

I make a large distinction between metrics and numerical goals. Metrics tell you what kind of output you are getting for your inputs (effort and methods). In contrast, numerical goals often define an arbitrary output which often incentivizes short cuts and shortchanges the learning process.

As an example, consider two companies of which one treats profit as a metric and another treats profit as a numerical goal. As a metric, it tells you how well your people, products, and processes have been doing. There is more a tendency to focus on longterm improvement.
When profit a numerical goal, there is a tendency to encourage everyone to cut corners to reach the goals. The manager who focuses on longterm improvement will be outperformed on a quarterly basis by the manager who cuts corners. Sadly, the managers who cut corners often get a reputation for "getting things done" and leave for the next promotion or big job long before their short cuts start causing problems.

Well chosen metrics give you a measure of how your learning is going. They are based in the reality of what is happening. When you use something like "number of pages read in 30 minutes" as a metric that you record each day, it can show you how you are improving (or not). Over weeks and months, it can give a good sense of how well your methods are working for you. A change from 5 pages to day that slowly increases to 8 to 10 pages over 3 or 4 months is a good indicator what you are doing is working. Maybe not as fast as you would like, but it gives you a baseline for experimentation with other methods.

In contrast, numerical goals set targets for your behavior. Such goals are often based in wishful thinking and arbitrary numbers. To decide to read 2000 pages over the next 6 months is an arbitrary goal. Such things have a tendency to put a focus on getting through the necessary 11 or so pages per day no matter what. This can result in skimming or continually skipping the same points of grammatical misunderstanding over and over because there is no time to do that if the 11 pages per day is to be met.

For me, I see metrics as an important part of continuous improvement where the focus is on determining if my efforts and methods are actually building the structures in my brain required to react to and use the new language. In contrast, I find that numerical goals usually become an end in themselves that distract me away from the real work at hand which is consistent improvement. I also have to be careful that my metrics don't start to become a goal as I try to push to move from 5 pages per day to 6 pages per day by shortcuts rather than real improvement.
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